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-   -   Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling) (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160545)

RobW 11-09-2018 04:12 AM

Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
The 40pt version:
ST4 DX23 IQ13
Talents: Tactics, Strategist, Running, Thrown weapons, Sha-ken, Weapon Mastery (Sha-ken)
Inventory: Bags of sha-ken
Armour: none

Shrewdly throws 12 sha-ken each turn.
adjDX before range = 23 + 2 (thrown weapons) - 8 (for 12 sha-ken) - 4 (shrewd) = 13

Damage for each sha-ken = 1d-2 + 2 (mastery) + 1d+2 (shrewd) = 2d+2

At a range of 3 hexes, expected chance to hit per sha-ken = 50% = 6 successful strikes per turn
Expected damage per strike = 9

Expected damage per turn:
If target has 0 armor = 54 damage taken per turn = dead
1 armor = 48 = dead
2 armor = 42 = dead
..
6 armor = 18 = dead
7 armor = 12 = dead, OR knocked down and dead next turn
8 armor = 6 = don't care about MNSH

Note this doesn't count possibility of 2x and 3x damage, which is significant when you have 12 chances to hit. Yet critical misses have no more impact than a regular miss.

larsdangly 11-09-2018 07:42 AM

Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
I believe we previously established that you can't make an aimed shot with more than 1 Sha Ken. I haven't checked the wording in the book, but I don't need to in order to know I would rule by the transitive property of sane rulings the same applies to shrewd attacks.

RobW 11-09-2018 07:53 AM

Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly (Post 2221168)
I believe we previously established that you can't make an aimed shot with more than 1 Sha Ken. I haven't checked the wording in the book, but I don't need to in order to know I would rule by the transitive property of sane rulings the same applies to shrewd attacks.

Aimed attacks are explicitly limited to single sha-ken. However, shrewd attacks are not limited in this way, although obviously we are all welcome to our house (sanity???!!) rules. Note that the current top build in the 40pt category in the 1-v-1 sim is a fencer who makes two shrewd attacks per turn.

Skarg 11-09-2018 10:18 AM

Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
The anti-MNSH house rule response that comes to my mind is about like:

* I think neither "master" talents nor "shrewd" attacks are available for ranged attacks. The "mastery" available for ranged attacks is not "Sha-Ken Master" but Thrown Weapons and Missile Weapons, not both. (A GM might decide they do want to allow that, but I'd hope they'd require serious in-play time & training to get there, NOT "my character starts with IQ 13 and already has thrown weapons, sha-ken, and expert and master sha-ken").

* I would add a maximum amount of injury resulting from a sha-ken hit anyway (especially when thrown in handfuls), probably 1 point of injury. Roll damage to see if it gets past shield/armor, but no more than 1 damage per sha-ken.

* I'd want players to explain/demonstrate to my satisfaction how they are carrying/wearing and quickly readying 12 sha-ken at a time.

hcobb 11-09-2018 10:47 AM

Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
Page 41: "Expertise applies only to hand weapons, but see the Missile Weapons skill. ... Bonus to damage. An Expert does +1 damage with weapons of the type, including thrown attacks if the weapon is throwable."

I.e. only the +1 damage applies to thrown attacks.

Skarg 11-09-2018 10:53 AM

Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb (Post 2221213)
Page 41: "Expertise applies only to hand weapons, but see the Missile Weapons skill. ... Bonus to damage. An Expert does +1 damage with weapons of the type, including thrown attacks if the weapon is throwable."

I.e. only the +1 damage applies to thrown attacks.

Yes, and Sha-Ken is not a hand weapon, so whether there even is an Expert or Master talents available for it seems dubious to me.

larsdangly 11-09-2018 10:22 PM

Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarg (Post 2221217)
Yes, and Sha-Ken is not a hand weapon, so whether there even is an Expert or Master talents available for it seems dubious to me.

If we are looking for a legalistic solution to this craziness, this is a pretty good one

RobW 11-10-2018 06:35 AM

Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
MNSH vs 7-hex dragon, who wins? The battle happens in an empty Melee arena, which has to be covered. Otherwise the dragon can fly, and wins easy.

It's actually a really interesting tactical battle. The issues I can find are:

* D's breath is a thrown weapon, if it hits, it kills MNSH. And, D has adjDX=14 with breath (before range), MNSH has adjDX=13 (before range) with the shrewd 12-star attack. So if D can get close, he can attack before MNSH and win.

* But if D ever moves more than 4 hexes, MNSH can run up adjacent, and inflict an average of 30+ damage: knocking down D (what a sight that would be!), and definitely putting -2 DX on D, meaning that MNSH will attack first and win next turn. Attempts to rush MNSH and trample don't work as MNSH easily makes 3d/DX save.

* So D wants to get close, but can't move more than 4 hexes. The problem for D is that I can't figure out how D can protect its side hexes in the confines of the arena. Eventually, MNSH is able to move into a side hex for a free attack, and put enough hits to give D a -2DX penalty and win on the next turn.

So MNSH defeats the 7-hex dragon.

larsdangly 11-10-2018 08:24 AM

Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
Except the MNSH's massively damaging barrage is imaginary because he/she/they doesn't get to deliver 12 shrewd damage bonuses per turn, thus all of the attacks bounce off the dragon's scales, and the fight ends in 2-3 turns with a pleasant burnt-bacon-y odor filling the arena.

hcobb 11-10-2018 01:26 PM

Re: Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)
 
A related hack that I'm closing in my house rules.

Human ST 8 DX 12 IQ 12 MA 12
Kick(2d-1)
Running(2), UC I-III(4), other stuff

Combat tactic is to rush and toss a ST 16 fighter. The big fighter needs to roll his DX of 11 on four dice or fall down. Then kick the guy while he's down.


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