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-   -   Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=159783)

lachimba 09-20-2018 07:56 PM

Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
Im pretty sure my players haven't noticed this as they still are concerned with loot and grinding levels.

But sometimes I look at DFRPG and it looks like a super hero game skinned with Dungeon Fantasy.

You have roles like Brick, Menatlist, Brawler that can filled by various templates.

The loot and breaking ito dungeons is not very Super hero, but I wonder about just going the whole super hero treatment.

tbone 09-21-2018 01:33 AM

Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
I'm not saying that that's not the case... but in the big picture, DFRPG isn't doing anything different with roles than what other fantasy RPGs do and have always done.

So the question arguably becomes: Did 70s-era D&D begin – consciously or not – as a fantasy skin over a superhero-like base?

(Me, I've never really thought about the superhero genre as a meaningful input into the creation of fantasy RPGs. But it's certainly interesting to look at how the genres of fantasy and superheroes turned out, and make comparisons.)

DouglasCole 09-21-2018 08:01 AM

Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2210386)
I'm not saying that that's not the case... but in the big picture, DFRPG isn't doing anything different with roles than what other fantasy RPGs do and have always done.

So the question arguably becomes: Did 70s-era D&D begin – consciously or not – as a fantasy skin over a superhero-like base?

I'd say "no" to this one. The lineage of D&D from the miniatures Wargame plus other influences was pretty clear. Even TFT wound up with Fighting Men (Melee) and those guys with the fireball (Wizard), which were the basic unit types in Chainmail.

The superhero stuff probably really started happening when the power curve stopped flattening after level 10 or so ("name level") and just got more awesome all the way to level 20. I don't know if that was 2nd edition or it waited until 3rd or 3.5th.

It's clearly there in Pathfinder and 5e. (Super-humans).

Superhero niches I'm not so sure about, though the tropes and protecting each individual role happens in real life specops too. Of course, they're superheroes in their own way.

Rasputin 09-21-2018 09:22 AM

Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lachimba (Post 2210346)
But sometimes I look at DFRPG and it looks like a super hero game skinned with Dungeon Fantasy.

Well, my first reaction is that it can't be because I enjoy Dungeon Fantasy and I'm not interested in superheroes at all. :)

My second is that I've actually played a superhero game skinned with dungeon fantasy. It's called "D&D 3e Epic Level Handbook." And no, DFRPG doesn't begin to get anywhere near that.

To give you perspective as to what happens in epic-level D&D games, I played a druid/ranger somewhere around 35th level. Combat was often me wild shaping into a silver dragon and having others fight flying demons while on top of me. Any of us could and did take hundreds of hit points of damage in a single round, dropping us to negatives, only to have the cleric heal us up to near-full hit points before our next turn. And there was the one time I just hit a couple of storming beasties with reverse gravity to avoid wasting any precious resources on them. (I don't remember what they were but they looked like big metallic badgers. A quick check of the SRD suggests that they might have been sirrushes, but I don't have my book handy to check.)

aaron819 09-21-2018 10:16 AM

Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
I think the best argument for it being a superhero game is the point value. 250 is a lot of points for a beginning character. But even that doesn't make it a superhero game.

InfinitePudding 09-21-2018 10:24 AM

Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
Personally I think the opposite is more true. Super Hero games are really reskinned fantasy games. You've got these mythical archetypes straight out of old folklore. For instance, Batman could be seen as a Robin Hood reskin, a wealthy talented member of the elite fighting the corrupt to protect the common man. Super Man can be seen as a Hercules Archetype, his father, Jor El coming from an unreachable location that we normal folks would consider magical and fantastic. Sent to live amongst the mortals, constantly outdoing himself with incredible feats each greater than the last. He could also fill the Jesus Archetype since he did die saving the world and was ressurected as well.

Anyway, that's just how I look at it.

Dalin 09-21-2018 01:05 PM

Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2210386)
So the question arguably becomes: Did 70s-era D&D begin consciously or not as a fantasy skin over a superhero-like base?

I'm with Doug on this one. AD&D wizards, at high levels, might have felt a bit like supers. But remember those 1st level days... one spell per day, 1-4 hit points. I can't think of a superhero origin story where the character starts out that pathetic (though I'm definitely not an expert on the genre).

Anthony 09-21-2018 01:43 PM

Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lachimba (Post 2210346)
Im pretty sure my players haven't noticed this as they still are concerned with loot and grinding levels.

But sometimes I look at DFRPG and it looks like a super hero game skinned with Dungeon Fantasy.

You have roles like Brick, Menatlist, Brawler that can filled by various templates.

The loot and breaking ito dungeons is not very Super hero, but I wonder about just going the whole super hero treatment.

It's super powered, not super hero, but the roles you identify have plenty of FRPG history.

johndallman 09-21-2018 04:19 PM

Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasCole (Post 2210421)
The superhero stuff probably really started happening when the power curve stopped flattening after level 10 or so ("name level") and just got more awesome all the way to level 20. I don't know if that was 2nd edition or it waited until 3rd or 3.5th.

Third. AD&D2nd is basically a tidied-up 1st; 3rd is a different game system that happens to look quite similar in play.

Anthony 09-21-2018 04:24 PM

Re: Does DFRPG more and more resemble a super hero game to you
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasCole (Post 2210421)
The superhero stuff probably really started happening when the power curve stopped flattening after level 10 or so ("name level") and just got more awesome all the way to level 20. I don't know if that was 2nd edition or it waited until 3rd or 3.5th.

That was first edition -- as long as you played a wizard or cleric. The phrase 'linear fighters, quadratic wizards' dates back to 1e.


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