Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (http://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   GURPS (http://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Planet Destroyers (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=10638)

sir_pudding 12-05-2005 01:33 PM

Planet Destroyers
 
From more powers excerpts
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon
The scale between a Capital Ship and the Death Star is 12D. See previous post substituting the Captial Ship for the Character. Death Star still wins. Even if it did only 1D of damage, it still wins, cause it ends up doing 13D damage... So, no need to figure damage. It wins.

The post that started this tangent wasn't Star Wars specific but referencing planet destroying in general. In some settings starship sheilds may stop an attack that can destroy a planet.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon
As for the others, those are "yes" or "no" answers IMO. No, it doesn't affect a gas giant.

What is the largest mass that it can destroy? Does it do any damage to a Gas Giant? This is GURPS, and the way we determine that is by it's dice of damage.
Quote:

Planetary shields MAY work, depending on their scale.
In GURPS this is the sheild's DR. In order to know what the DR needs to be, we need to know how much damage the attack does.

I am not saying that this is really necessary, but it is trivial to figure out.

Ragabash Moon 12-05-2005 08:37 PM

Re: Planet Destroyers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding
From more powers excerpts

The post that started this tangent wasn't Star Wars specific but referencing planet destroying in general. In some settings starship sheilds may stop an attack that can destroy a planet.
What is the largest mass that it can destroy? Does it do any damage to a Gas Giant? This is GURPS, and the way we determine that is by it's dice of damage. In GURPS this is the sheild's DR. In order to know what the DR needs to be, we need to know how much damage the attack does.

I am not saying that this is really necessary, but it is trivial to figure out.

Funny thing... shortly after my last post, I was reading West End's "Dark Empire" sourcebook, and it talks of Planetary Shields, some that were developed AFTER the Death Star that are able to stop the death star from blowing up the planet, but if any damage penetrates, it probably fries the atmosphere off anyway... and that planets have a 10-20D die code, death star scale :)

So, it does matter and they DO state the damage in Dark Empire of the Death Star's damage (being essentially 20D, death star scale), just IMO when you have a 'plot device' you don't need to figure out the damage. You can't fight the death star. You must circumvent it, like they did for plot. :)

wise_owl 12-06-2005 10:57 AM

Re: Planet Destroyers
 
Gotta agree with you there unless your game is all about Planet-Destroying conflicts, most of the time if my players asked "How much damage is that weapon doing", my answer would be "Enough....".
A Single weapon capable of destroying a planet in a single shot would be prohbitively expensive, your probably looking at Trillions of Dice of Damage with a significant Armour Piercing ability(I mean what's a planets DR)...

Toubrouk 12-06-2005 11:13 AM

Re: Planet Destroyers
 
I believe that "Planet-Destroyers" weapons are plot devices. They work when they need to work and they fails when they need to fail. Simple.

sir_pudding 12-06-2005 01:06 PM

Re: Planet Destroyers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wise_owl
Gotta agree with you there unless your game is all about Planet-Destroying conflicts, most of the time if my players asked "How much damage is that weapon doing", my answer would be "Enough....".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toubrouk
I believe that "Planet-Destroyers" weapons are plot devices. They work when they need to work and they fails when they need to fail. Simple.

As I said, it may not be necessary, but it is trivial to figure out. However sometimes it can matter, if sheilds exist that can sometimes stop it or when it's used to attack something other than the size and type of planet it was meant to. Compared to Akahige's pre-titanic primordial entities this is trivial.
Quote:

Originally Posted by wise_owl
A Single weapon capable of destroying a planet in a single shot would be prohbitively expensive, your probably looking at Trillions of Dice of Damage with a significant Armour Piercing ability(I mean what's a planets DR)...

Depends on the planet, the Earth should have about DR 25,000,000, a gas giant will have less (but be Diffuse).

Ragabash Moon 12-06-2005 07:43 PM

Re: Planet Destroyers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding
As I said, it may not be necessary, but it is trivial to figure out. However sometimes it can matter, if sheilds exist that can sometimes stop it or when it's used to attack something other than the size and type of planet it was meant to. Compared to Akahige's pre-titanic primordial entities this is trivial.
Depends on the planet, the Earth should have about DR 25,000,000, a gas giant will have less (but be Diffuse).


Well, again, Dark Empire stated that Planetary Shields DO exist, and they CAN stop the Death Star from atomizing the planet like it did Alderaan... BUT, the Death Star will still partially penetrate the shield from overloading it, then the remaining energy of the laser will ignite and burn off the atmosphere. Pain and burning agony. Seems that atomization of the planet thing isn't so bad, is it?

It DOESNT work on gas giants... only on terrestrial type planets. Simple enough. Then, if you use it against something smaller than a planet, well... it's dead.

gjc8 12-06-2005 09:32 PM

Re: Planet Destroyers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon
Well, again, Dark Empire stated that Planetary Shields DO exist, and they CAN stop the Death Star from atomizing the planet like it did Alderaan... BUT, the Death Star will still partially penetrate the shield from overloading it, then the remaining energy of the laser will ignite and burn off the atmosphere. Pain and burning agony. Seems that atomization of the planet thing isn't so bad, is it?

Ok. So, the Death Star, say, does (10^12)d damage, and has ROF 10 (but fires for 1 round only). If top-of-the-line planatary shields give, say, DR 10^13 semi-ablative, that would work-out about right. The ROF simulates the ability to fire at less than full power, if the need arises.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon
It DOESNT work on gas giants... only on terrestrial type planets. Simple enough. Then, if you use it against something smaller than a planet, well... it's dead.

This need not be limited to Star Wars; in other settings Death Star size battle stations with shields to match the orginal's weaponry may exist.
Even in a Star Wars campaign, if planetary shields that almost block it exist (perhaps allowing people in fortified bunkers to survive) it should be theoretically possible to build such a battle station.
Or a technological weapon like the death star could coexist with supernatural powers like those in Lensman, which could potentially defend against it.

And why would you say it doesn't work AT ALL on Gas Giants? It could do damage without destroying them.

Ragabash Moon 12-06-2005 09:51 PM

Re: Planet Destroyers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gjc8
Ok. So, the Death Star, say, does (10^12)d damage, and has ROF 10 (but fires for 1 round only). If top-of-the-line planatary shields give, say, DR 10^13 semi-ablative, that would work-out about right. The ROF simulates the ability to fire at less than full power, if the need arises.


This need not be limited to Star Wars; in other settings Death Star size battle stations with shields to match the orginal's weaponry may exist.
Even in a Star Wars campaign, if planetary shields that almost block it exist (perhaps allowing people in fortified bunkers to survive) it should be theoretically possible to build such a battle station.
Or a technological weapon like the death star could coexist with supernatural powers like those in Lensman, which could potentially defend against it.

And why would you say it doesn't work AT ALL on Gas Giants? It could do damage without destroying them.

Well, that was the whole point of why they didn't just blast Yavin THEN blow up Yavin IV. They had to go AROUND Yavin to blast Yavin IV. It's details you get from a novel/RPG sourcebook/trivia junkie that aren't in a movie. Plot wise, it was to give the rebels time to stop the Death Star, but still it goes to show... gas giants the Death Star doesnt' affect (Now Bespin on the other hand... being flammable, MIGHT be able to be ignited, that's not the same as being able to blow up a gas giant planet)

Toubrouk 12-06-2005 10:14 PM

Re: Planet Destroyers
 
Okay, let's put some numbers into the problem:

Quote:

The Earth's mass is about 5.98 x 1024 kg.

The Earth has an average density of 5520 kg/m3 (water has a density of 1027 kg/m3). Earth is the densest planet in our Solar System.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/sub...th/index.shtml
So, what we need to know is; what kind of explosive we need to blow a nice chunk of matter that got two-thirds the density of iron weighting 5.98 x 1024 kg.

10 squares foot X 1" of Iron equal 1440 cubic inches. It got DR50 HT58.
A cubic meter contain 64 000 cubic inches (40"X40"X40")

64 000/1440=44.4 sheets.

So, a cubic meter of iron got DR2220 and HT2575
If we divide these numbers by two-thirds, we got the average stat of five tons of "Planet Earth"= DR1480 HT1716

from this, we can extrapolate the DR and HT of Earth:

DR 1.77 x 1024
HT 3.08 x 1024

If the average draw on a six-dice face is 3.5, a weapon who will be able to destroy earth would need to be able to get this level of damage:

14D x 1023

Maybe i am wrong, but the maths tend to look that way.

-EDIT-

Just for the fun, in Gurps I.S.T. page 76 sidebar , they list a 10 Kiloton nuclear bomb at 8D x 106 flash damage and 12D x 106 concusion damage. If i remember well, Hiroshima was 14 Kilotons. Just to put things in perspective...

MrId 12-06-2005 10:27 PM

Re: Planet Destroyers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon
Well, that was the whole point of why they didn't just blast Yavin THEN blow up Yavin IV. They had to go AROUND Yavin to blast Yavin IV. It's details you get from a novel/RPG sourcebook/trivia junkie that aren't in a movie. Plot wise, it was to give the rebels time to stop the Death Star, but still it goes to show... gas giants the Death Star doesnt' affect (Now Bespin on the other hand... being flammable, MIGHT be able to be ignited, that's not the same as being able to blow up a gas giant planet)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

My math-fu isn't strong enough to appraise these figures, but here are some calculations regarding the power of the first Death Star, generated assuming that Aldaraan was roughly the same mass as the Earth. Bascially, he asserts that an Earthlike planet would require a minimum of 2.4*10^32 joules to destroy, and the energy imparted to the fragments whipping about after the planet was blown up raise the figure to an upper limit of 3.4*10^38. Interestingly enough, assuming that Yavin was roughly Jupiter-sized, he asserts that this enough energy to destroy Yavin, but not send the fragments whipping about at high velocity.

So, the superlaser, according to his calculations, puts out at least 2.4*10^32 joules. I suppose one could convert this to dice, if so inclined, using the 3e Beam Weapon rules in Vehicles, but I think it would break the system. Does anyone want to hazard a guess at the joules to dice ratio in 4e?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.