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-   -   Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=31114)

whswhs 09-17-2007 10:09 AM

Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
I'm playing a character who has one level of Extra Attack. Because she often goes up against foes with ranged weapons, she's taken to throwing things at them: For preference, small steel balls at the weight that gives her max damage.

But once she throws one, she's disarmed, and needs to take out another. The GM has been letting her use one of her two attacks for a Ready maneuver, so she can throw as one action, draw a weapon as the next action, and repeat in the next turn. In effect, this gives her the equivalent of Fast-Draw (Rock) as a free side effect of Extra Attack. And it means that if she eventually actually learns Fast-Draw (Rock) she'll be able to throw two missiles in every turn, or at least every turn where she makes her Fast-Draw roll.

Is this legal as a use of Extra Attack? If not, is the benefit of Extra Attack essentially negated whenever she throws things, holding her down to one throw every other turn? Or is there some intermediate solution that gives her some payoff for taking Extra Attack?

Bill Stoddard

roguebfl 09-17-2007 10:19 AM

Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
No, it is not a legal use of Extra attack, Extra attack only give you an attack on attack manuvers (Attack, Move and attack, and All out Attack), and does nothing on other manuvers; and Ready is a separate manuver

Brandy 09-17-2007 10:29 AM

Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
Kromm has opined on this one in the past. In short, not the same thing -- as Rogue says.

Mark Skarr 09-17-2007 01:18 PM

Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
Specifically, there is no reason you couldn't use your normal action to ready the orb and then your extra attack to throw it.

But, as Rogue has said (and Kromm), Extra Attack is just an extra attack maneuver, not an extra action for the round.

Kelly Pedersen 09-17-2007 01:21 PM

Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr
Specifically, there is no reason you couldn't use your normal action to ready the orb and then your extra attack to throw it.

Actually, that's incorrect. Extra Attack only works if you're already taking an Attack, Move and Attack, or All-Out Attack manuever. You can't, say, Ready and then use Extra Attack to get in an attack anyway.

Mark Skarr 09-17-2007 01:25 PM

Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen
Actually, that's incorrect. Extra Attack only works if you're already taking an Attack, Move and Attack, or All-Out Attack manuever. You can't, say, Ready and then use Extra Attack to get in an attack anyway.

I don't think that's right. Extra Attack doesn't say you HAVE to make an attack to get to use your Extra Attack. The only thing I see that implies this is the first full paragraph on B.54, but it is specifically talking about Extra Attacks, not your basic attack.

naloth 09-17-2007 01:34 PM

Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr
I don't think that's right. Extra Attack doesn't say you HAVE to make an attack to get to use your Extra Attack. The only thing I see that implies this is the first full paragraph on B.54, but it is specifically talking about Extra Attacks, not your basic attack.

It's implied. It wouldn't be an EXTRA if you didn't take an attack.

It's also a lot cheaper than Altered Time Rate or Compartmentalized Mind.

Kelly Pedersen 09-17-2007 01:35 PM

Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr
I don't think that's right. Extra Attack doesn't say you HAVE to make an attack to get to use your Extra Attack. The only thing I see that implies this is the first full paragraph on B.54, but it is specifically talking about Extra Attacks, not your basic attack.

Kromm has weighed in on this (see http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=16 for example). You only get the Extra Attack if you take an attack manuver.

naloth 09-17-2007 01:38 PM

Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by whswhs
Is this legal as a use of Extra Attack? If not, is the benefit of Extra Attack essentially negated whenever she throws things, holding her down to one throw every other turn? Or is there some intermediate solution that gives her some payoff for taking Extra Attack?

I don't know if it's RAW legal, but I would not have an issue with using Fast Draw as a free action to get two throws in using extra attack. If she's not using different hands then I would still require Multi-Strike.

Looking at G:Martial Arts, it seems that Extra Attack might be the more expensive way to do this.

Mark Skarr 09-17-2007 01:47 PM

Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naloth
It's implied. It wouldn't be an EXTRA if you didn't take an attack.

I disagree, it's not implied. That isn't something that should ever be implied. That should be specifically spelled out. You can only use an extra attack if you've used your normal action this turn for an attack. That's not something to assume people will get. Most people will see it as getting an action and still being able to make an attack.
That's saying that if I run out of bullets in my first gun and can't attack with it, I'm required to stop shooting with my other gun. No. That makes no sense.
And that's a really BAD answer. Telekinesis with Animation is still classified as Telekinesis with Animation even if I'm not using TK to do it. It's a name. Get over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Pederson
Kromm has weighed in on this

I don't think this has anything to do with this discussion. Kromm's discussion was about how many extra attacks you get in a turn.
However, if so, Kromm is also wrong in this case because, if you read Extra Attack, it explicitly gives you an extra attack maneuver.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Characters P.54
Extra Attack is exactly that: an extra Attack maneuver on your turn in combat.

Therefore, you have an extra attack maneuver, so you can use your first action for whatever you want.


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