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-   -   Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages] (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=80800)

Agramer 06-20-2011 09:46 AM

Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
What Social advantages should Eddard Stark have if hes made as PC.

Same for Robb Stark?

Thanks

Eddard Stark:

Status 6?
Wealth Multimillioner ?
Legal enforcement powers
Allies?
What else/How much

gjc8 06-20-2011 11:05 AM

Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agramer (Post 1196746)
Wealth Multimillioner ?

I'd have to crunch numbers, but I'm not sure he has full-blown Multimillionaire Wealth. Tywin Lannister certainly does, but the Starks are not anything like that wealthy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agramer (Post 1196746)
Allies?

Yes, but only for his family (those that aren't Dependents), and perhaps a few personally loyal retainers (Jory, Luwin). Most of the retinue and all of the bannermen are a result of his Status and Wealth.
Edit: You could maybe make a case for Howland Reed being an Ally, too, rather than just a bannerman.

Ned, at least, probably also has Rank. I'm not 100% clear on when you need Rank in addition to Status, but Ned has several positions (Hand of the King, Warden of the North) that seem to imply that he should have Rank.

Robb is never Hand, and is never formally installed as Warden of the North (because he's fight a civil war), but you could maybe make a case for having a higher Status as King in the North. Robb also has Grey Wind as an Ally.

Agramer 06-20-2011 01:00 PM

Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gjc8 (Post 1196782)
I'd have to crunch numbers, but I'm not sure he has full-blown Multimillionaire Wealth. Tywin Lannister certainly does, but the Starks are not anything like that wealthy.

.

Well he is Feudal overlord of whole North(Whatever his actual tytle: king,duke or warden of north fact is that everyone in north owes him feudal fealthy) and North is a region thats as big as Brasil.

gjc8 06-20-2011 02:10 PM

Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agramer (Post 1196836)
Well he is Feudal overlord of whole North(Whatever his actual tytle: king,duke or warden of north fact is that everyone in north owes him feudal fealthy) and North is a region thats as big as Brasil.

Yes, but that's a matter of his Status and Rank. His Wealth would only be the assets and incomes controlled directly by him, rather than through his vassals.

Also, though the North is large, it's sparsely populated and relatively poor, so his incomes are less than one might expect given that he controls a region of that size. The Lannisters are explicitly described as more wealthy than the Starks, despite controlling a much smaller area, presumably because the region they control is richer in natural resources (famously, gold mines).

sir_pudding 06-20-2011 02:16 PM

Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gjc8 (Post 1196782)
Tywin Lannister certainly does, but the Starks are not anything like that wealthy.

Ice is priceless (and Tywin certainly covets it), but it's probably Signature Gear. (
Spoiler:  
)

Langy 06-20-2011 02:19 PM

Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gjc8 (Post 1196891)
Yes, but that's a matter of his Status and Rank. His Wealth would only be the assets and incomes controlled directly by him, rather than through his vassals.

Also, though the North is large, it's sparsely populated and relatively poor, so his incomes are less than one might expect given that he controls a region of that size. The Lannisters are explicitly described as more wealthy than the Starks, despite controlling a much smaller area, presumably because the region they control is richer in natural resources (famously, gold mines).

The Lannisters are richer than everyone else. We've seen nothing to indicate that the Starks aren't ridiculously wealthy themselves, and everything to indicate that they are - for example, they have an extremely big castle. This is a TL3 or so world - that gives a starting wealth of around $1000. Multimillionaire would just barely make that $1,000,000. If one dragon is equal to one GURPS $, then the Lannisters probably have at least Multimillionaire 2 (giving them around $10M), as we know the Lannisters have lent over three million dragons to the crown and a million dragons is apparently a very, very high sum.

I'd be fine with giving the Starks Multimillionaire 1 or Filthy Rich - so between $100,000 and $1,000,000, if a single Dragon is the same as a GURPS $. I'm not sure a Dragon is the same as a GURPS$, though - I think a Dragon must be worth more than that, maybe $100 or more (to a peasant, a Dragon is worth quite a lot of money, and one GURPS$ is pretty much defined as 'the price of a loaf of bread'). Thus, the Starks probably have Multimillionaire 1 or 2, the Lannisters 3 or 4.

Ze'Manel Cunha 06-20-2011 02:27 PM

Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Langy (Post 1196896)
Thus, the Starks probably have Multimillionaire 1 or 2, the Lannisters 3 or 4.

Yep, just because the Lannisters are so much richer than everyone else, doesn't mean the other Kings aren't all rich multimillionaires too.

Just the value of the empty land which they can give to a new bannerman is a substantial asset, even in the desolate north.

Miles 06-20-2011 03:23 PM

Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Langy (Post 1196896)
If one dragon is equal to one GURPS $...

A gold dragon is worth significantly more than a gurps dollar. It's apparently enough to buy a nice riding horse with.

GRRM is pretty vague about the value of his money though. Sometimes a few silver coins will buy you a night at a decent inn, other times they'll buy you a cheap nag horse.

Gold & Appel Inc 06-20-2011 04:56 PM

Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agramer (Post 1196746)
Status 6?

Definitely. Status and Military Rank are basically the same thing in this setting at low levels, but I would keep the costs separate for situations like this, when you get up to the very highest levels where some of the Lords Paramount are Wardens of a Compass Point and some aren't. Hoster Tully is a Status 6 Lord just like Ned, Jon Arryn, etc, but his Military Rank is probably only a 5 to their 6 because if the whole realm was invaded they'd be the go-to generals.

Robb's ascension to "King in the North" doesn't increase his Status IMHO; it just makes him the top dog in a smaller pond, marries his Status to his Military Rank since he is no longer part of a larger semi-organized force, and carries a negative Reputation for rebellion in certain quarters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agramer (Post 1196746)
Wealth Multimillioner ?

Absolutely. The Lannisters may have an arbitrarily greater amount of wealth, especially liquid assets, but the Starks don't exactly live a Spartan life of austerity in their geothermally-heated castle sitting on a parcel of land the size of half the Seven Kingdoms, despite their distaste for flashy displays.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agramer (Post 1196746)
Legal enforcement powers

10 points before he becomes the Hand of the King, for absolute authority within his domain. 15 afterward, for absolute authority across the kingdom unless he acts against the King (for example, when he tells Beric Dondarrion to put a team together and go execute Gregor Clegane).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agramer (Post 1196746)
Allies?

As suggested above, Ned inspires personal loyalty in some (perhaps more than most others of his stature), but still has plenty of regular employees who are just doing their jobs and would sell him out for a big enough bag of gold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agramer (Post 1196746)
What else/How much

Ned almost certainly has a complex web of Reputations, considering his eventful military career and his role in national politics. To the people who fought by his side in Robert's Rebellion and Balon's rebellion he is the hero that lifted the siege of Dragonstone. To the Targaryens he is one of "the Usurper's Dogs," and the loyalist Lords of the Reach who were laying siege to Dragonstone probably aren't all smiles and hugs about him, either. In particular, the Dayne family probably has some colorful opinions about the guy. In the North and to the smallfolk he is seen as a generic stern but benevolent patriarch, but south of the Neck (and behind closed doors in the Dreadfort) many people who are in the know see him as an idealistic bumpkin from the sticks and snicker at his naivete in social matters.

Langy 06-20-2011 05:58 PM

Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles (Post 1196928)
A gold dragon is worth significantly more than a gurps dollar. It's apparently enough to buy a nice riding horse with.

GRRM is pretty vague about the value of his money though. Sometimes a few silver coins will buy you a night at a decent inn, other times they'll buy you a cheap nag horse.

I didn't remember it being enough to buy a riding horse with (that'd be around 1000 GURPS$), but I agree that it's certainly a lot more than 1 GURPS$ (hence the rest of my second paragraph). I treated it as 1 GURPS$ to show the absolute minimum amount of Wealth they'd have was already at Filthy Rich or MM1, not because I thought that's what it actually was.


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