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-   -   Probable Typo in new rules PDF. (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=172214)

JimTullis 02-16-2021 10:58 AM

Probable Typo in new rules PDF.
 
Tony Hughes pointed out in Kickstarter Update 90 that the just released "Car Wars Kit Rules" PDF is different from the earlier "Car+Wars+Core+Rules" PDF.

The new contents listing is most likely wrong.

The new listing shows that a 2 player box has 2 Wrecks, 2 Barriers, and 2 Barrels. It also shows the 4 player box with 4 of each.

Looking back, Update #83 shows the wreck token sheet tooling with 1 each of wreck, wall, barrier and 2 barrels [why not 4? there's room for 2 more].

Update #86 shows the 4 player Core Box contents as 2 wrecks, 2 walls, 2 barriers, and 4 barrels. So 2 copies of the Wreck Token Sheet.

Also, the "Kit" rules don't list the scenario tokens, but the "Core" rules do, as well as the box.

Neither of the contents in the rules files differentiates between barriers and walls. The photo of the box does though.

This reinforces my question of with multiple packaging options (2-player/4-player/red&yellow/blue&green) why put the contents list in the rulebook? It isn't a rule, and the list on the box should be enough, it wastes space in the rule book and is another place for weird typos to sneak in. I would much rather have had the Crew and Dropped Weapons rules (without their contents lists) in the core book.

JimTullis 03-02-2021 08:27 AM

Re: Probable Typo in new rules PDF.
 
Any official word on this?
I'd hate to see it go to print if it is a typo.

Also, it seems to me that the Barrel Tokens may have an error.

Barrel Tokens appear to have icons for Light Obstacle, Clear LOS, and Level 1 Terrain. But since they are a Light Obstacle you shouldn't be able to Drive on them, so they don't really count as terrain. If the intention is to add a blue die to the driving roll of vehicles that contact them, wouldn't a die spot (like clay has) be more appropriate?

Darryll 03-08-2021 03:10 PM

Re: Probable Typo in new rules PDF.
 
Hey Jim,

Thank you for these questions. Collecting answers has taken time, so I appreciate your patience. Here is what I know and can share with you.

Box Content Questions
o One of the previously-uploaded rules files was an old, incorrect version, and the listed contents were incorrect. New updates have been sent for all rules files via BackerKit.
Barrel Tokens
o The terrain icon is an error on the barrel tokens. We are looking into fixing it if possible, but it may be too late. Fortunately, it does not impact gameplay (other than being a bit confusing). It has also been added to our errata list.
# of tokens on a Die Cut Sheet
o The barrels were a late addition to the game. At the time, there was a reason for the limited quantity, but we redesigned them to be more flexible. Unfortunately, modifying the die to add more at that point was prohibitively expensive.
Barriers & Walls?
o In this case, "barrier" is a casual description of an obstacle, just as a player would say "building" or "barrel." Everything in the arena is an obstacle, and if the obstacle is not a car, the icons (or the players) dictate how it works, regardless of what the obstacle is called.

I hope this helps answer your questions!

Thank you,

Darryll

Magesmiley 03-15-2021 11:40 AM

Re: Probable Typo in new rules PDF.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryll (Post 2370690)
Hey Jim,

o In this case, "barrier" is a casual description of an obstacle, just as a player would say "building" or "barrel." Everything in the arena is an obstacle, and if the obstacle is not a car, the icons (or the players) dictate how it works, regardless of what the obstacle is called.

A caution:
Please be exceedingly careful with using casual descriptions of things in games like Car Wars that grow over time.

They were the source of a bunch of the problems that the Classic edition of Car Wars had and a contributor to why people quit playing it - they couldn't agree on what phrases like this meant, typically at a time where one player or another would lose depending on how it was interpreted. Which is a big killer of enthusiasm to play again, as one player often feels he or she was robbed by the unclear rules.

Consistent syntax in the rules helps keep a game coming back to the table.

43Supporter 03-15-2021 01:43 PM

Re: Probable Typo in new rules PDF.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Magesmiley (Post 2371575)
A caution:
Please be exceedingly careful with using casual descriptions of things in games like Car Wars that grow over time.

They were the source of a bunch of the problems that the Classic edition of Car Wars had and a contributor to why people quit playing it - they couldn't agree on what phrases like this meant, typically at a time where one player or another would lose depending on how it was interpreted. Which is a big killer of enthusiasm to play again, as one player often feels he or she was robbed by the unclear rules.

Consistent syntax in the rules helps keep a game coming back to the table.

If I could post meme GIFs here, I would be posting the Daniel Bryan "YES -- YES -- YES!" GIF right now; because I cannot more-forcefully agree with the above statement, and I say this having been on both sides of the situation (that is: Sometimes the lack of clarity went against me, sometimes it went *for* me).

JimTullis 03-15-2021 05:17 PM

Re: Probable Typo in new rules PDF.
 
Thank You MageSmiley.
You have lucidly expressed a concern I had but hadn't really recognized. I knew there was a reason that not listing walls and barriers separatelyin the contents bothered me. But I hadn't analyzed it.

Also, if we examine the response Darryll gave we see a small example of the issue.
Without a copy of the errata new players will be confused by the Barrel Tokens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryll (Post 2370690)
Barriers & Walls?
o In this case, "barrier" is a casual description of an obstacle, just as a player would say "building" or "barrel." Everything in the arena is an obstacle, and if the obstacle is not a car, the icons (or the players) dictate how it works, regardless of what the obstacle is called.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryll (Post 2370690)
Barrel Tokens
o The terrain icon is an error on the barrel tokens. We are looking into fixing it if possible, but it may be too late. Fortunately, it does not impact gameplay (other than being a bit confusing). It has also been added to our errata list.

NOT MEANING TO PICK ON DARRYL.
I appreciate the effort he has put into gathering the answers. And I undersand that he has no control over the issues.


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