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zot 06-12-2018 04:23 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
Something I really like about Catnap sleeper is that it makes a qualitative lifestyle difference between wizards and heroes. Wizards gain an identifiably weird habit.

You could conceivably just declare that your character is a catnap sleeper without even having this talent but I made it because it does provide a mechanical advantage when it comes to daily magical activity. For instance, it lets you charge a ST battery during your sleep period -- sleep an extra 15 minutes and you can use that 25 ST to store 5 ST in your ST battery.

trag 10-10-2018 03:20 PM

Re: Conan the wizard, Groo the Genius.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith (Post 2181169)

***
Groo was a comic book character who was VERY stupid, but he has all sorts of fighting skills -

***
The "Groo the genius" I've suggested fixing, by making talents cheaper, so you don't have to be a brain trust to get a decent number of (not complex) talents.

Too late for my input to be useful to the update...

But I think this is a problem that is easily fixed by role playing.

I had a character who was your basic strong, dumb, fighter. Ultimately, he reached the point where his strength was high enough to wield a Great Sword one handed. He ended up with a middlin' high IQ (around 17, IIRC) in order to have the talents he needed for all the weapons skills and such he had picked up during play.

But I didn't play him as a genius. I argued that in his case, a high IQ was more indicative of a sort of high animal cunning, rather than intellectual achievement.

Most of these stat issues in ITL can be "fixed" with role playing. The character isn't his stats. The character is what you role play.

platimus 10-10-2018 03:43 PM

Re: Conan the wizard, Groo the Genius.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trag (Post 2215273)
Too late for my input to be useful to the update...

But I think this is a problem that is easily fixed by role playing.

I had a character who was your basic strong, dumb, fighter. Ultimately, he reached the point where his strength was high enough to wield a Great Sword one handed. He ended up with a middlin' high IQ (around 17, IIRC) in order to have the talents he needed for all the weapons skills and such he had picked up during play.

But I didn't play him as a genius. I argued that in his case, a high IQ was more indicative of a sort of high animal cunning, rather than intellectual achievement.

Most of these stat issues in ITL can be "fixed" with role playing. The character isn't his stats. The character is what you role play.

I actually agree with that viewpoint. In reality, a character is only as smart as his player. But I am curious...When "The Rock" had to roll against IQ to notice traps, detect lies, disbelieve, etc. did he roll against 17? Whether did or didn't, I can see good arguments for either case.

You mentioned "animal cunning" which sounds very good. From the few Conan stories I've read, Conan had this "high animal cunning" even though he wasn't a "learned man". My dog is somehow very good at detecting my attempts to trick or trap her. Then again, any human that knows me will tell you I'm a terrible liar. Animals are smarter than most people think. The problem is, they have severe physical handicaps in a world designed for humans. Plus, they pretty much suffer from severe ADHD. I've seen arguments that opposable thumbs and language are what sets humans apart from animals. I think it's really more basic than that. Animals can't formulate long-term goals/plans and stick to them. They pretty much live in the moment.

JohnPaulB 10-10-2018 04:45 PM

Re: Conan the wizard, Groo the Genius.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trag (Post 2215273)
Too late for my input to be useful to the update...

But I think this is a problem that is easily fixed by role playing.

I had a character who was your basic strong, dumb, fighter. Ultimately, he reached the point where his strength was high enough to wield a Great Sword one handed. He ended up with a middlin' high IQ (around 17, IIRC) in order to have the talents he needed for all the weapons skills and such he had picked up during play.

But I didn't play him as a genius. I argued that in his case, a high IQ was more indicative of a sort of high animal cunning, rather than intellectual achievement.

Most of these stat issues in ITL can be "fixed" with role playing. The character isn't his stats. The character is what you role play.

That is how I did it. I imagined what kind of character I wanted. When my character got up to the IQ level I thought he should act at, I capped my Reaction rolls to that. I continued investing in IQ, but didn't roll that higher level for attempts. IQ 12/16 12 being the rolling level for activities, 16 being the investment level. 16 counted towards the 42 point character total.

That handled the character bloat for me. I could do that for ST the same way for wizards. Wizbang is ST 12/16. 12 for purposes of taking damage & 16 for fatigue/damage. Yes, I penalized myself out of 4 damage, but it felt right for the character.

I don't recall if I did the same for Dex. I guess I only went real high if I was compensating for armor or if I wanted a fast bowman.

hcobb 10-10-2018 05:54 PM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
Now you've got the Mana hole to dump XPs into.

The seasoned barbarian needs at least IQ 11, say....

ST 13, DX 14(12), IQ 11
Bastard Sword 1-h(2d+1), Dagger(1d-1), Small Shield(1+1), Leather Armor(2), Toughness(1): Stops 5 hits total
KN 16: Tactics(1), Expert Horsemanship (2), Shield Expertise(2), Acrobatics (2), Toughness I(2), Climbing(1), Alertness(2), Sword(2), Shield(1),Horsemanship(1)

larsdangly 10-10-2018 08:31 PM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
These sorts of character design discussions are fun, but I think we'll find even 42 points is higher than people are actually going to reach in normal play - we should be thinking more about characters with 36-38 stat points, as above that it starts to get obscenely difficult to rise further.

TippetsTX 10-10-2018 08:55 PM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly (Post 2215333)
These sorts of character design discussions are fun, but I think we'll find even 42 points is higher than people are actually going to reach in normal play - we should be thinking more about characters with 36-38 stat points, as above that it starts to get obscenely difficult to rise further.

Unless you plan to throw out the revised stat advancement schedule and stick with the original (or something close to it) which is probably what I'll end up doing.
;)

larsdangly 10-11-2018 09:35 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
This will be the biggest divide between groups (and even official products, if Tollenkar's Lair is any indication): do you follow the official experience rules and therefore have a setting where normal humanoids generally have stat totals in the 28-40 range, or do you follow old practices and let the upper end of the range drift up to 60 or so. Your answer to that will have a huge impact on what your campaign is like, how fights work, etc. I don't have an opinion about which is best (well, that isn't entirely true because I prefer the new one), but clearly it won't be possible to move back and forth between groups or materials that take alternate views on this. This is why I find it so odd that TL presents a bunch of NPCs that blow the doors off the stat totals PCs can reach.

hcobb 10-11-2018 10:25 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
Assuming a 30 year adventuring career at 50 XP and 1% mortality per month.
Year 1: 600 XPs gives 35th Att 200 XP change, 89% survival.
Year 2: Another 600 XPs gives 37th Att, 79% survival.
Year 3: Another 600 XPs gives one skill slot 100XP change, 70% survival.
Year 4: Another 600 XPs gives one skill slot 200XP change, 62% survival.
Year 5: Another 600 XPs gives one skill slot 300XP change, 55% survival.
Year 6: Another 600 XPs gives one skill slot 400XP change, 48% survival.
Year 7: Another 600 XPs saved up for 1000XP change, 43% survival.
Year 8: Another 600 XPs gives 38th Att, 38% survival.
Years 9 to 14 gain 6 skill slots, 18% survival.
Years 15 and 16 gain two more skill slots and 200XP change, 15% survival.
Years 17 to 21 gives 39th Att, 8% survival. (Character is at starting IQ plus 12 skill slots.)

The next ten years aren't enough to get to 40th Att.

IQ 15 wizard would take five years to fill his Mana under this system while gaining nothing else.

Of course true adventures should be much more deadly than this.

TippetsTX 10-11-2018 10:33 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly (Post 2215411)
This will be the biggest divide between groups (and even official products, if Tollenkar's Lair is any indication): do you follow the official experience rules and therefore have a setting where normal humanoids generally have stat totals in the 28-40 range, or do you follow old practices and let the upper end of the range drift up to 60 or so. Your answer to that will have a huge impact on what your campaign is like, how fights work, etc. I don't have an opinion about which is best (well, that isn't entirely true because I prefer the new one), but clearly it won't be possible to move back and forth between groups or materials that take alternate views on this. This is why I find it so odd that TL presents a bunch of NPCs that blow the doors off the stat totals PCs can reach.

I agree. And while I also think 60 points is probably higher than should be reasonably possible for a player character to achieve, a top end from 45 to 51 points should absolutely be viable. As written, however, the current advancement rules are a serious barrier to this level of play.


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