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-   -   Conan the wizard (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=157782)

zot 06-06-2018 01:48 PM

Conan the wizard
 
I didn't see any threads on this. Maybe someone addressed it in the giant Fantasy Trip thread or something.

So, Dark City games address this by making a wizard's staff be a a strength battery, starting at zero capacity, upgradable with EP to the wizard's IQ. There's something to start with.

Skarg 06-06-2018 05:02 PM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
It's been discussed in a few of the threads here. People don't agree on what to do about it, or exactly what the problem is or what to do about it.

I think there is a problem and think it's not just Conan the Wizard but more generally "attribute bloat" (see that thread title) and lack of ways to represent experience.

I like the sort of approach you mentioned, where EP can and usually should be used for other things besides raising attributes. My favorite idea so far is using experience to buy Talents beyond IQ total, and then adding more advanced talents.

JLV 06-07-2018 01:12 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
I'm a big fan of being able to expend XP on something besides attribute growth too -- all through the many discussions on attribute bloat, talents, etc., etc., I've advocated such a thing.

And I think Dark City Games had a LOT of good ideas in their system (though there are some I disagree with too). I hope, if Steve ever has any time to sit down and do so, he works through some of their adventures and sees how their ideas work; there are some things there he could port over pretty easily into mainstream TFT that would be pretty cool to have "officially" present in the system -- and the DCG Staff system is only one of them!

zot 06-07-2018 05:25 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JLV (Post 2181074)
I'm a big fan of being able to expend XP on something besides attribute growth too -- all through the many discussions on attribute bloat, talents, etc., etc., I've advocated such a thing.

And I think Dark City Games had a LOT of good ideas in their system (though there are some I disagree with too). I hope, if Steve ever has any time to sit down and do so, he works through some of their adventures and sees how their ideas work; there are some things there he could port over pretty easily into mainstream TFT that would be pretty cool to have "officially" present in the system -- and the DCG Staff system is only one of them!

Heh, I once posted rules on the Dark City forum for a Vancian magic variant. The staff started at the wizard's ST and could be upgraded to ST + IQ. A Vancian wizard had to use the staff's points to prepare spells (which was not possible in combat because it took time and concentration) and store them in the staff. Casting a spell doesn't fatigue a Vancian wizard but they can only cast the spells they have prepared.

larsdangly 06-07-2018 09:46 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
This is a thing. The house rule I introduced that addresses it is that I added a talent, Powers Beyond the Pale, where for every 1 talent point invested you gain a 2 point rechargeable ST capacity for spell casting. The conceit is that this represents your development of an ability to ritualistically meditate (or whatever). The ST points recover at the same rate as ST expended from your ST stat; the order is ST stat expenditure recovers first, PBtP points after (not simultaneous). This has never seemed to lead to noticeable power bloat in play testing, as the ST points are not an enormous resource and must be bought in exchange for other things (spells and other talents). It is true that ideal 'dueling' wizards built with this rule in play will always take a couple points, and will have several more points of ST to cast spells. So, that is a small but noticeable difference. On the other hand, you would be stupid to invest in ST as a pure spell caster, so Conan the Wizard is gone (unless you want to be a wizard who wins arm wrestling contests!)

larsdangly 06-07-2018 09:47 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
Oh yes, I also modified the Staff spell so that it serves as a rechargeable ST battery. That is a good house rule.

larsdangly 06-07-2018 09:51 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
... a flip side of this sort of 'grade inflation' (which is definitely what we're talking about here!) is that I don't do my players any favors when it comes to magic items. If they want to invest the time and resources into making one, and they can meet all the requirements, fine. But the game world is not awash with them. I feel like lots of magic items PLUS 'grade inflation' ST batteries is a game-breaking combo.

Rick_Smith 06-07-2018 11:15 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zot (Post 2180954)
I didn't see any threads on this. Maybe someone addressed it in the giant Fantasy Trip thread or something.

So, Dark City games address this by making a wizard's staff be a a strength battery, starting at zero capacity, upgradable with EP to the wizard's IQ. There's something to start with.

Hi Zot, everyone.
I think that experienced wizards are much more powerful than experienced fighters. So if wizards could spend experience points to improve their fatigue ST (fST) that they could use on spells, and fighters had nothing so spend experience on, it would exacerbate the problem.

Wizards would be improving their combat power, but their attribute total stays low so they would be buying attributes more easily. If this was done, you may wish to consider the fST spent on the staff as part of the wizard's attribute total.

And yes, this was discussed in the big TFT thread. :-D
Warm regards, Rick.

larsdangly 06-07-2018 11:38 AM

Re: Conan the wizard
 
This is true, and is exacerbated by the house rules I suggested ('talent' based spell casting ST, and staffs as commonly available ST batteries). I'm not sure how I feel about that. On one hand, one of the miracles of TFT as a combat engine is that magicians and heroes both have lots of options for initial design and early advancement yet somehow are well balanced in head-to-head fights. The game nicely captures the drama of the original Conan stories, where our hero is regularly sticking a sword through some spell casting jerk. It would be nice if that balance could be better maintained at high levels of experience.

On the other hand, in a fully fleshed out roleplaying game it isn't so important that every character type be equal in 1-on-1 gladiatorial fights. Experienced heroes do things that magicians don't, and a magician who kicks butt in one fight is often basically helpless in the next because all of his or her ST reserves are gone. I guess I've just reconciled myself with the idea that experienced magicians beat experienced fighters in 'fresh' 1 on 1 fights.

Rick_Smith 06-07-2018 11:45 AM

Re: Conan the wizard - Wizards Beat Fighters
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly (Post 2181159)
This is true, and is exacerbated by the house rules I suggested ... I guess I've just reconciled myself with the idea that experienced magicians beat experienced fighters in 'fresh' 1 on 1 fights.

Hi Larsdangly, everyone.
I fixed that by making talents cheaper, and adding a few, hard to get, kick ass talents.

This gave the hero class something to aspire to, and made experienced fighters very dangerous.

Warm regards, Rick.


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