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tbone 12-06-2019 01:12 AM

Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Well. For a product that reportedly fell short of business objectives at launch, Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game keeps growing its product line.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/2703269

Let the speculation begin! What does that Companion 2 cover suggest as its mystery content?

More magic items, I'll bet. That looks like a given.

And that minotaur . . . More monsters? No, not based on that particular image; minotaurs are already in Monsters. Maybe a nice labyrinth adventure? Wait, I know. More PC races ported over from the DL line! (??)

And the scarlet-tressed elf (?) with owl . . . Hm, animal allies??

What other portents can be divined by the oracles of this forum?

Harald387 12-06-2019 07:56 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
The gimmes:
-The 16 pages that were written for Magic Items 2 but didn't get printed due to missing the stretch goal.
-The 12 pages that were written for Monsters 2 but didn't get printed due to missing the stretch goal.

What I hope to see:
-New content, not recycled DF content. While I grok that there's going to be some recycling going on (if only to make the effort to introduce the DF stuff to the DFRPG-only audience), one of the best parts of the DFRPG line has been the proliferation of all-new, high-quality stuff that Sean has been putting out and I'd like to see more of it.

Dalin 12-06-2019 12:16 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Just beyond the elf-with-the-owl is an opening to some sort of impressionistic landscape. Mountains? Forest? Elemental plane of mud? Clearly a new campaign setting with dungeons galore.

tbone 12-11-2019 07:58 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
SJG posted a teaser: https://twitter.com/SJGames/status/1204766806071808001

Looks like the book's going to offer delver-types built as high-level villains. Which means a new type of published "monster". All-new content (not recycled from DF). And more character designs (I always like Sean's designs), offering glimpses of really high-level builds.

(I'm not sure that the minotaur knight is actually a villain, though, as it looks like he was falsely accused of crimes. Maybe he's a sympathetic villain, or a potential partner?)

Anyway. Magic items, villains . . . and maybe the stretch goal monsters from Monsters 2? Or maybe something else, or maybe it's not even a three-section book.

Looking forward to your next teasers, SJG –

philreed 12-13-2019 05:12 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
To receive email notification when the project launches, please click the "notify me" button on this page.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...wered-by-gurps

Black Leviathan 12-13-2019 01:33 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
It's be nice of the elf with the owl is allusion to some detailed familiar rules or perhaps a Beastmaster class of some sort.

Bruno 12-14-2019 08:04 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
I'm intrigued if the druid will have PC-usable rules for shapeshifting. Of course we already have the werewolf for mechanics, but no way to access it :)

Shapeshifting is a bear of a problem though, no pun intended.

evileeyore 12-14-2019 09:30 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno (Post 2299999)
Shapeshifting is a bear of a problem though, no pun intended.

I for one am not taking this pun lion down!

I'm using this opportunity to hawk the GURPS 4th Dungeon Fantasy 5 Allies book which has all the rules a budding DFRPG GM needs for his Druid shapeshifting PCs. I guarantee it's contents will be greedily wolfed down by all those playing Druids, Wizards, Clerics, Holy Warriors, and anyone who can talk the GM into letting them have an animal companion (Barbarians and Scouts with Animal Handling, Thieves with trained pets, Knights and their mounts, etc).

Proteus 12-14-2019 11:40 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by evileeyore (Post 2300011)
...book which has all the rules a budding DFRPG GM needs...

Fowl! Er, foul! That’s a plant pun.

(Hm: do we need a giant slime-mold or mobile Venus fly-trap for an icky druid or vegetal wizard...?)

evileeyore 12-14-2019 12:38 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus (Post 2300035)
(Hm: do we need a giant slime-mold or mobile Venus fly-trap for an icky druid or vegetal wizard...?)

YES!

We really do need a Plants and You book for DF/DFRPG. DF has DF Monsters 2 Icky Goo already, which when paired with DF 5 Allies goes a long way to Black Puddin pets...

Bruno 12-15-2019 06:28 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Venus fly-trap nothing, regular old inanimate rose bushes are bad enough! Giant animate rose bushes would be a nightmare...

We had an early-generation "Ottawa Hardy Rose" bush. It never flowered, but it produced a bumper crop of huge thorns that it used to crawl all over the rest of the garden and suffocate it. We had to hack it back to the ground every fall to give the other plants half a chance. Nothing stopped it from reaching a branch out and grabbing at me when I was mowing the lawn, and that thing was (ostensibly) immobile.

evileeyore 12-15-2019 09:08 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno (Post 2300222)
Nothing stopped it from reaching a branch out and grabbing at me when I was mowing the lawn, and that thing was (ostensibly) immobile.

Thorn bushes are the sneakiest plants of them all. Like horses they just lay in wait looking all innocent until they can catch you unawares and then BAM! It's pain time.

Rasputin 12-19-2019 02:19 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2299617)
SJG posted a teaser: https://twitter.com/SJGames/status/1204766806071808001

Looks like the book's going to offer delver-types built as high-level villains. Which means a new type of published "monster". All-new content (not recycled from DF). And more character designs (I always like Sean's designs), offering glimpses of really high-level builds.

Goodness knows for how long I’ve begged for this. Admittedly, for generic ones, but why quibble?

Raekai 01-12-2020 08:10 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by philreed (Post 2303986)

Figured this might be important here too. I'm excited!

I might just have to put off buying Temtem after all...

philreed 01-17-2020 05:55 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
More info on the launch/end dates:

http://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/J...sy_Companion_2

philreed 01-20-2020 07:11 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
The Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2 campaign is live on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...wered-by-gurps

xlyce 01-20-2020 07:11 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
You will tell people outside the US when we can buy it on POD through Amazon?

philreed 01-20-2020 07:15 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xlyce (Post 2305324)
You will tell people outside the US when we can buy it on POD through Amazon?

If the campaign succeeds, then we will add the book to this page -- http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/ondemand/ -- when it is available in print-on-demand through Amazon.

Pragmatic 01-20-2020 09:40 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Backed! Looking forward to it succeeding.

Turhan's Bey Company 01-20-2020 09:47 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Backed. Then saw the add-ons. May have to reconsider my pledge.

Rasputin 01-20-2020 12:15 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
At $4,180 (83.6%) as I post this. This will easily fund.

Rasputin 01-20-2020 02:14 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
And it has funded!

Dalin 01-20-2020 03:03 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasputin (Post 2305386)
And it's has funded!

Happy dance!

Agurpsplayer 01-22-2020 07:01 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Just backed this, but I wasn't able to at "add-ons". Really wanted to pick up the Kitten Dice for my wife. I tried editing and couldn't buy the dice there either. Any suggestions?

Turhan's Bey Company 01-22-2020 07:12 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agurpsplayer (Post 2305717)
Just backed this, but I wasn't able to at "add-ons". Really wanted to pick up the Kitten Dice for my wife. I tried editing and couldn't buy the dice there either. Any suggestions?

It seems like an explanation of add-ons should be one of their FAQs, since this comes up in every campaign.

If you want add-on items, you can't (and won't) specify them now. It's separate from the tiered rewards (PDF, physical book, DFRPG, etc.). You can pledge the total amount of your tiered reward + add-ons now and have that total charged at the end of the campaign. When they open Backerkit, which is what they use to collect mailing addresses and otherwise manage fulfillment, you can specify the specific items you want. Or you can just pledge the amount for your tiered reward, add it in in Backerkit when that happens, and be charged that extra amount then.

In most of their campaigns, pledging the money for the add-ons now rather than later matters because that counts towards stretch goals. However, since there are no stretch goals for this project, it doesn't matter one way or another.

To sum up, then: increase your pledge now or pay the additional amount later, but either way, you won't specify what add-ons you're getting until later.

DouglasCole 01-22-2020 07:13 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agurpsplayer (Post 2305717)
Just backed this, but I wasn't able to at "add-ons". Really wanted to pick up the Kitten Dice for my wife. I tried editing and couldn't buy the dice there either. Any suggestions?

Plus up your pledge for the add-ons now, you select them in Backerkit.

Andrew Hackard 01-22-2020 07:46 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DouglasCole (Post 2305719)
Plus up your pledge for the add-ons now, you select them in Backerkit.

Or you can add them in BackerKit later and not worry about mathing it out right now. We're happy for people to do it either way.

Agurpsplayer 01-22-2020 09:28 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Thanks! Really excited for this.

DouglasCole 01-22-2020 09:41 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard (Post 2305724)
Or you can add them in BackerKit later and not worry about mathing it out right now. We're happy for people to do it either way.

Yah. That's a good point. My reflexive answer is "add now!" because that helps with the - absent for this campaign [1] - stretch goals.


[1] Personally, I like this. I suspect that my next TFT campaign, "More Perilous Journeys" will not have stretch goals either. Part of getting more experienced with production and Kickstarter is to realize when "I can plan for exactly what I have to do months ahead of time, and I think I have an offering folks will groove on" is more than sufficient.

Taneli 01-23-2020 01:55 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Backed, at $10.02 for the pdf, plus my two cents ;)

No further options for us avid GURPS collectors who already have everything & live on the other side of the pond.

philreed 01-25-2020 11:53 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
The Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2 campaign hits the 48 hr mark later today and moves into the final few days.

In addition to the new book, there are reward levels that include other releases in the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game line. You can find more info here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...wered-by-gurps

We have other GURPS projects planned for the year. To keep up with all of our Kickstarter projects, please follow both Steve Jackson Games and Warehouse 23 on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/warehouse23

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/sjgames

beetle496 02-04-2020 07:21 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
I bit the bullet and got in under the wire, at $135.

I think DF will be a great introduction to GURPS and RPG generally. My teen-age son has expressed some mild interest in D&D (we got the cheap 5e D&D intro boxed set last Xmas). I can’t quite figure out why he and his friends are not playing already. Hopefully they will run with it!

Dalin 02-29-2020 06:58 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
I received my printed copy yesterday. Skimmed it last night and was amazed at the amount of new crunch it includes for DFRPG, especially in chapter 3. In addition to the magic items and monsters from the first two chapters, just about every villain in chapter 3 features something players can use: new racial templates, professional abilities, etc. It is jam packed with useful goodies!

Raekai 02-29-2020 07:56 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalin (Post 2311992)
I received my printed copy yesterday. Skimmed it last night and was amazed at the amount of new crunch it includes for DFRPG, especially in chapter 3. In addition to the magic items and monsters from the first two chapters, just about every villain in chapter 3 features something players can use: new racial templates, professional abilities, etc. It is jam packed with useful goodies!

I was quite pleased with this as well. I would love to see more and more content like this for the DFRPG, and I will gladly continue paying for it!

tbone 02-29-2020 08:09 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalin (Post 2311992)
I received my printed copy yesterday. Skimmed it last night and was amazed at the amount of new crunch it includes for DFRPG, especially in chapter 3. In addition to the magic items and monsters from the first two chapters, just about every villain in chapter 3 features something players can use: new racial templates, professional abilities, etc. It is jam packed with useful goodies!

It's already shipping?? I thought it wouldn't ship til April. (Then again, I don't pay attention well.)

Anyone know when the PDF version will be blasted to buyers?

philreed 02-29-2020 03:06 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2312008)
It's already shipping?? I thought it wouldn't ship til April. (Then again, I don't pay attention well.)

Anyone know when the PDF version will be blasted to buyers?

The team is working on PDF distribution. We will certainly have that complete by the estimated delivery date of April.

beetle496 02-29-2020 03:09 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2312008)
It's already shipping?

Yes, got mine today. U.S. East coast.

Michael Thayne 02-29-2020 05:06 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
I'm very nearly a completist when it comes to buying GURPS books but I somehow missed this kickstarter. When will it be available for sale (particularly in PDF form) to people who didn't participate in the kickstarter? Also, do the included monsters in fact include centaurs and orcish war-pigs?

philreed 03-01-2020 01:22 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne (Post 2312101)
I'm very nearly a completist when it comes to buying GURPS books but I somehow missed this kickstarter. When will it be available for sale (particularly in PDF form) to people who didn't participate in the kickstarter? Also, do the included monsters in fact include centaurs and orcish war-pigs?

The book will be available once fulfillment to the Kickstarter backers is complete.

We recommend following us on Kickstarter to receive email notification when new projects launch.

Dalin 03-01-2020 06:43 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne (Post 2312101)
Also, do the included monsters in fact include centaurs and orcish war-pigs?

Yes! The centaur includes a racial template (100 points) along with some special traits (hooves, etc.). The warhog includes a "Riders on the Swine" sidebar with details for orc riders and the possibility of "Heroes on Hogs." Other monsters include the astuca (subterranean bugs), elastoids (stretchy gray creeps), harpies (with a few variations), and osisizi (spiny jungle humanoids).

Michael Thayne 03-01-2020 11:07 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by philreed (Post 2312145)
We recommend following us on Kickstarter to receive email notification when new projects launch.

I did the thing!

dbm 03-02-2020 10:31 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Just received an email from Warehouse 23 saying my download was available!

Experience says SJG do these in waves so some notifications might come a little after others.

Anders 03-02-2020 10:32 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Just got mine too. Any idea on how long it takes for it to hit POD?

dbm 03-02-2020 11:20 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
It can vary quite a bit, and getting the data to propagate to non-US Amazon can take quite a while, too.

Dalin 03-02-2020 01:14 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
My PDF arrived this morning. From my perspective, this has been an absolute model kickstarter experience.

beetle496 03-03-2020 02:40 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
DFC2 is available for me warehouse23.com, pretty slick!

But I bought the “DFRPG Pack” so there should be three more populating there sooner-or-latter. Plus some add-ons. No real hurry I do not think. I was happy to have extras (dice, bases) all in the same shipped box.

Rasputin 03-03-2020 03:11 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beetle496 (Post 2312581)
DFC2 is available for me warehouse23.com, pretty slick!

How long should I wait before bugging SJG? I have had trouble the last two Kickstarters since my Kickstarter and W23 accounts use different addresses, but not earlier ones.

InexplicableVic 03-03-2020 03:31 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasputin (Post 2312585)
How long should I wait before bugging SJG? I have had trouble the last two Kickstarters since my Kickstarter and W23 accounts use different addresses, but not earlier ones.

I bugged them ahead of time--about two weeks ago or more, since this has happened before. I then bugged them again last night. Still no PDF, and nothing I ordered has shipped. I get the latter, since I ordered a bunch of other books. But the PDF? I don't get that at all. I guess I'll get it when I get it. But I wouldn't be inclined to wait.

tbone 03-04-2020 09:43 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartan506 (Post 2312590)
But the PDF? I don't get that at all. I guess I'll get it when I get it. But I wouldn't be inclined to wait.

Yeah, I don't know why PDF fulfillment isn't something that's readied for all purchasers and then activated all at once, in one big blast of download notification emails. But I imagine there are good reasons.

Still waiting here. It'll come . . .

philreed 03-05-2020 01:35 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
The team is working on it. We still expect to complete PDF fulfillment by the estimated date: April 2020.

Please see the Kickstarter campaign for the estimated delivery date:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...wered-by-gurps

Michael Thayne 03-05-2020 09:49 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
No one is accusing SJGames of failing to make good on the promises in its Kickstarter. But having people get their PDFs at wildly different times is confusing regardless of what the originally promised delivery date date is.

philreed 03-05-2020 11:21 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne (Post 2312791)
No one is accusing SJGames of failing to make good on the promises in its Kickstarter. But having people get their PDFs at wildly different times is confusing regardless of what the originally promised delivery date date is.

We are a small team and the crew is working on it. We'll post an update when PDF fulfillment is complete.

ravenfish 03-05-2020 02:02 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by philreed (Post 2312797)
We are a small team and the crew is working on it. We'll post an update when PDF fulfillment is complete.

It just seems bizarre that (apparently) you are having to manually send out PDFs one at a time rather than being able to automatically generate a list from the Kickstarter data to which they could all be sent at a click of a button. I would think, with all the companies that are selling PDFs over Kickstarter, someone would have come up with a way to automate the process.

philreed 03-05-2020 02:48 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenfish (Post 2312811)
It just seems bizarre that (apparently) you are having to manually send out PDFs one at a time rather than being able to automatically generate a list from the Kickstarter data to which they could all be sent at a click of a button. I would think, with all the companies that are selling PDFs over Kickstarter, someone would have come up with a way to automate the process.

* The Kickstarter fulfillment tools are not great.
* Many backers use different email addresses across different platforms.
* We get _several_ emails of "oh, thing X changed" which further makes it challenging.
* Multiple emails come in with "did I back project X?" which requires the crew to check the new email against the list of backers.
* It's not an easy process.

The team is working at it as best they can with the tools available. We'll post an update when fulfillment is complete.

tbone 03-05-2020 06:50 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Thanks for the small peek behind the scenes, Phil. Like just about anything, I'm sure the process looks easier from the outside.

Down the road, I trust you'll also let us know when Amazon POD is available. I'm ready to finally give that a shot for this book.

Refplace 03-05-2020 07:26 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by philreed (Post 2312817)
* The Kickstarter fulfillment tools are not great.
* Many backers use different email addresses across different platforms.
* We get _several_ emails of "oh, thing X changed" which further makes it challenging.
* Multiple emails come in with "did I back project X?" which requires the crew to check the new email against the list of backers.
* It's not an easy process.

The team is working at it as best they can with the tools available. We'll post an update when fulfillment is complete.

All those are serious soakers of time and resources but ...
* Many backers use different email addresses across different platforms.

That one cannot be overestimated, Having to check different addresses, verify or match them against a W23 account is not really a trivial process. Its not technically difficult, its just manpower or time intensive. People who do not work with small underfunded staffs, especially public facing ones tend to underestimate these kinds of things. When I worked at a major company, I still had end users not following procedures waste development time. But we could count on most people using the tools, forms, and process we set up for our convenience and speed. Working with external customers and especially political groups where we had less control frequently saw massive increases in time to handle things.
FYI I got mine quickly, but I use the same email address in all SJG matters and was sure backerkit info matched my W23 info, even things like physical address which might not matter for electronic distribution but could for tax purposes.

LokRobster 03-05-2020 09:17 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
I’m really enjoying this book, and am enjoying the Delvers to Go character tie-ins as an ongoing theme.

I decided to go look up the pdf for it... took me awhile to find it! Turns out it’s in a zip file with the “DM Screen” , so I’ll have to download it next time I’m at my PC.

Any thought of offering the Delvers to Go as a separate pdf? If not, it’d be helpful for the GM Screen’s description to call out what the 2 16-pg booklets are. Searching “delvers” in warehouse 23 doesn’t turn up “Delvers to Go” anywhere in its results. And I can’t remember off-hand what the 2nd booklet even is :)

DarbyMcD 03-07-2020 06:50 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
But the link you posted goes to an update that says, and I quote " Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2 Fulfillment is Complete ".

namada 03-07-2020 03:17 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DarbyMcD (Post 2313042)
But the link you posted goes to an update that says, and I quote " Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2 Fulfillment is Complete ".

No, not for me, it's to the DFRPG GM Screen.

OldSam 03-14-2020 01:44 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Will the Companion 2 be available via Warehouse23 and/or Amazon or something like that after the kickstarter shipments are done etc.?

Anders 03-14-2020 03:01 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Yes, it will.

So sayeth Phil.

Michael Thayne 03-19-2020 03:03 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Just bought the PDF on Warehouse 23? Have only done a quick skim, but I like the way the centaur is built, and the "villains" chapter has some interesting examples of sympathetic villains, antiheroes, and the like.

Kromm 03-19-2020 03:32 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne (Post 2314840)

Just bought the PDF on Warehouse 23? Have only done a quick skim, but I like the way the centaur is built, and the "villains" chapter has some interesting examples of sympathetic villains, antiheroes, and the like.

Thanks for the comments! I've heard a whole lot about availability and distribution, but almost nothing about the contents. ;)

I'm glad you like the centaur build. I know there are competing schools of thought about how to construct centauroids, but this one struck me as being the most playable. Because centaur PCs are a thing. I definitely fudged Bulky to fit, but I think it's fair if the GM plans to be strict about logistics. Even if the GM is slack about that, a lot of the other traits this pays for aren't first-tier special abilities.

As for the villains . . . my aim was to avoid villains who are only interesting because they're super-optimized killers, and who nobody would hesitate to kill rather than make a deal with. Most of them aren't really any more murderous than the average delver (granted, that isn't saying a lot). I suppose that some could even be played as high-powered PCs.

tbone 03-19-2020 09:56 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Just got my PDF yesterday, so I've only taken in bits and pieces. For anyone sitting on the fence, I'll just note here that there's a lot of value in this. As in x magic items and y monsters and z villains, yes, but then there's everything hinted at in the easy-to-overlook "Bonus!" blurb on the back cover:
  • a bunch of PC races (both brought over from DF and new)
  • two evil professions brought from DF
  • lots of new traits (including shapeshifting, über-wealth, a handful of all-new (?) swashbuckler traits not in DF, and horns and wings and tails and other racial accouterments)
  • a new spell
  • a new "path" for martial artists
  • several animal companions
  • new mundane gear (hauling equipment, wooden and gnomish armor, and shoe options (!))
  • lots of ready-built and unique magic items on the persons of those villains

64 pages, but it feels like a lot more. (Note for future supplements: Villains, or any detailed character write-ups, seem a great way to introduce lots of new stuff to the game while simultaneously showing how the stuff actually gets used.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 2314849)
Thanks for the comments! I've heard a whole lot about availability and distribution, but almost nothing about the contents. ;)

I'm glad you like the centaur build. I know there are competing schools of thought about how to construct centauroids, but this one struck me as being the most playable. Because centaur PCs are a thing. I definitely fudged Bulky to fit, but I think it's fair if the GM plans to be strict about logistics. Even if the GM is slack about that, a lot of the other traits this pays for aren't first-tier special abilities.

Speaking of Bulky, it'd be interesting and helpful to hear how exactly you built and priced that. Along with, of course, how you built any other new traits not spelled out in DF. (Along those lines, the included notes on why specific magic items were moved to this book are interesting. Any further designer's notes on the book are greatly welcomed!)

A few other notes:

・The split Move scores on some of the monsters left me confused; if there's a note in the book on what it means, I'm missing it. The answer is squirreled away in the Enhanced Move write-up in Monsters. So it's not a mystery, but all the same, I think it'd be good if the "Reading Monster Stats" box in this book and in Monsters explained split Move scores. I think that's where perplexed readers are going to look for an answer.

・I don't suppose this was intentional for any reason, but all of the monsters are mundane (with one animal). No demons/faerie/undead/etc. Which, since DFRPG doesn't complement the Naturalist skill with an Unnnaturalist counterpart (something I'd kind of like to see), leaves me wondering what skill would cover knowledge of elastoids and osisizos and other things that are "mundane" and yet anything but.

・As with the entire game line so far, all the text to aid GMs and players really stands out: the scenario ideas and adventure seeds, the detailed noted on what to roll if the monster uses this attack instead of that attack, the monster and villain combat tactics – all the advice on using stuff. More than any rules simplifications, I think this is what makes DFRPG "GURPS for fantasy, but simpler".

・For those following the POD situation: Just after I got the notice of my download, I saw the notice about Amazon POD distribution. I took a peek at Amazon Japan without expecting anything, figuring the book might be US-only for a while – but no, there it is already, available for POD purchase. Which I think I'll do; as I reported earlier, I gave POD a test shot with Magic Items 2, and was pleasantly surprised that it looked (nearly) identical to the regular DFRPG books, with color and glossy pages and all that. So I expect Companion 2 will be the same.

Anyway. The book is looking like a great resource. I look forward to putting it to use at the table.

Celjabba 03-20-2020 01:23 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Everything Tbone said, especially

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2314893)
Note for future supplements: Villains, or any detailed character write-ups, seem a great way to introduce lots of new stuff to the game while simultaneously showing how the stuff actually gets used.

The book is great, but the "bonus" make it awesome, and, I think, ideally suited for people discovering DFRPG as well as old Gurpser (Gurpsist ? ).

Kromm 03-20-2020 05:55 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2314893)

Speaking of Bulky, it'd be interesting and helpful to hear how exactly you built and priced that.

"All the other stuff that makes a centaur adds up to 135 points, and I'd prefer an even 100 points," more or less. A lot of one-off racial traits in the DFRPG are not built using strict GURPS rules. I suppose that if you speak GURPS, you could roughly emulate it as:
  • ST+3 (Size, -10%) [27], not ST+3 [30], for -3 points
  • HP+8 (Size, -10%) [15], not HP+8 [16], for -1 point
  • Lifting ST 8 (Size, -10%) [22], not Lifting ST 8 [24], for -2 points
  • Striking ST 8 (Lower Body Only, -60%; Size, -10%) [12], not Striking ST 8 (Lower Body Only, -60%) [16], for -4 points
  • Gigantism [0] without the free Basic Move+1, for -5 points
  • Increased Consumption 2* [-20]
-3 + -1 + -2 + -4 + -5 + -20 = -35

* Technically, this would mean 4× consumption while a centaur has 5×, but I felt 5× was easier to work with and probably fairer in a world with magical workarounds.
That is, a 15-point rebate for the fact that the DFRPG neither offers the Size limitation nor gives a Basic Move bonus to cancel the downsides of SM +1, plus the disadvantage of having to buy and carry lots of rations (very relevant to the DFRPG). All the mean stuff the GM could do to you because you're big – charge more for armor, have bridges break, etc. – is why Size is a limitation. That is, it's built into the rebate, not a separate thing.

(And yeah, there's the dangling question of not applying Size to later ST, HP, etc. My feeling there is that someone who buys another 10 levels of ST won't much feel the effects of carrying extra rations, essentially wiping out the Increased Consumption . . . so they'll actually come out ahead.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2314893)

The split Move scores on some of the monsters left me confused; if there's a note in the book on what it means, I'm missing it. The answer is squirreled away in the Enhanced Move write-up in Monsters.

The reader is told, "Traits: Important advantages or disadvantages, including special ones from Monsters, pp. 9-14," and every monster with a split Move has Enhanced Move listed in its traits. If we're quietly packing the bonuses for Striking ST, Brawling, and various nonhuman body parts (Claws and Strikers) into attack damage, then I think it's just as fair to do something similar with Move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2314893)

I don't suppose this was intentional for any reason, but all of the monsters are mundane (with one animal). No demons/faerie/undead/etc.

Remember that all of these monsters are outtakes from Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 2. When looking at the "balance" between monster classes, take that into account. Mundane monsters were preferentially cut from Monsters 2 because The Powers That Be felt that demons, Elder Things, undead, etc. were "more monstrous" than races not much weirder than elves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2314893)

Which, since DFRPG doesn't complement the Naturalist skill with an Unnnaturalist counterpart (something I'd kind of like to see), leaves me wondering what skill would cover knowledge of elastoids and osisizos and other things that are "mundane" and yet anything but.

Officially, "No skill is needed for mundane humanoids" (Adventurers, p. 85) and "use Influence skills to mess with mundane humanoids" (Adventurers, p. 86). If the GM really wants to introduce the complexity of "some mundane is more mundane than other mundane," they can, but that isn't part of the game as written.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbone (Post 2314893)

As with the entire game line so far, all the text to aid GMs and players really stands out

Thank you! That's the fun part to write. The stats are not. ;)

And thank you for the kind words in general!

tbone 03-21-2020 12:42 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Thanks for the detailed peek inside that Bulky trait. It all seems sensible, including the workings of Increased Consumption. Good thing centaurs are accomplished hunters, or they'd have to spend all day grazing. (Which is probably the sort of crack that centaurs don't appreciate.)

(I always liked the Inconvenient Size disad that 3e had; in an ideal world, I think centaurs' forms would be built using that, plus a hefty point value for what SM does to them as attack targets, and then other details as you've added. But working from what the existing game actually offers, your build looks good to me, with a neat point cost as well.)

On split move:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 2314922)
The reader is told, "Traits: Important advantages or disadvantages, including special ones from Monsters, pp. 9-14," and every monster with a split Move has Enhanced Move listed in its traits. If we're quietly packing the bonuses for Striking ST, Brawling, and various nonhuman body parts (Claws and Strikers) into attack damage, then I think it's just as fair to do something similar with Move.

No problem with quietly dropping the Enhanced Move value into the stats block; it indeed should be there. But just to clarify this (very minor) thing I'm talking about:

I'm familiar with the split Move stat from Monsters (even if it doesn't get a lot of use in that book), but when skimming Companion 2, I simply forgot what the split means. Momentary brain freeze. (I was looking at the war hog entry, and thought, "What's this, Move with and without rider? No, that's discussed separately . . .") So I thought, "Where would a newbie look for an explanation if it's not in the write-up?", and went to the "Move" entry in "Reading Monster Stats". No explanation there, in Companion 2 or in the two Monsters books.

Monsters does hold the answer, of course, but I think a newbie has to do a bit of detective work to get there: Deduce that the answer might involve a trait, note that monsters with a split Move score all have Enhanced Move, and look up that trait to find the explanation.

In short: I think the most intuitive place newbies will look for an explanation is "Reading Monster Stats". In any future monster books, following "Move is ground Move except as noted" with "A split Move score denotes the Enhanced Move trait" would be a tiny but helpful improvement, IMO.

Just a simple suggestion. Too many words to get there. : /


Re mundane monsters: No complaint here that they're all mundane (+ an animal); nothing wrong with further rounding out that class! As for identification skills: Yeah, it's a quirk of the game that, by the books, delvers and staid townspeople alike can automatically identify elastoids and other really bizarre "mundanes". But any time that feels unsatisfying, it's easy enough for the GM to wing something.

(And while I do like a hypothetical Unnaturalist skill to cover such stuff, along with the subterranean versions of skills like Survival from GURPS Underground Adventures, I haven't introduced those into a DFRPG game yet. Because as much as I like the idea of skills that better distinguish weirdo delvers from normal above-ground naturalists and survivalists, I also think that even DFRPG has enough skills as it is . . . )

Well. Back to enjoying the new book.

Raekai 03-26-2020 07:07 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Like a good dice-rolling being who reviews great products and supports his hobby, I have finally done all (I think) of the DFRPG line so far (even though I'm a bit late), including Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2.

BrianEye 04-29-2020 11:52 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy Companion 2
 
Got my print copy of this via Amazon yesterday (and Magic Items 2 arrived this morning) - delighted with the contents, and wow - full color on the PODs! :)


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