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-   -   DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy) (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=155458)

rerednaw 02-04-2018 08:30 PM

DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
I've joined a group of melee heavy characters and they are all stating that they have DR for their eyes.

They are both monks and one of them bought Damage Resistance as a power as well. One is human, the other is fluffed as a lizardman but he went the advantages/powers route out of the various books not using the DF templates.

DR 9 on the eyes sounds a bit high to me. Or is this just the norm? In any case I'm curious how this was done.

EDIT: I just looked at the Martial Artist template. They do get Damage Resistance at -10% & -40% cost for -50% (Chi, Tough Skin) I'm not sure how this means it applies to the eyes as well. 5 Pts for DR 2 everywhere (aka force field) seems a bit...inexpensive.

Is there a clarification on this?

mr beer 02-04-2018 08:46 PM

Re: DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
Damage Resistance explicitly does not apply to the eyes IIRC. You need Nictating Membrane for that.

Also Dungeon Fantasy has been carefully designed for game balance, you will note that innate DR tends to be limited to DR 1 or 2 for the templates. Martial Artists can't buy DR 9 by RAW and if they could, DR (Chi, Tough Skin) does not apply to the eyes. It also has other limitations, it's very much not a forcefield.

DR from Basic is one of the best possible advantages to buy if you are going into a DF setting. You could spend 100 of your 250 points on getting vanilla DR 20 and then be basically immune to almost every melee attack. That's why it's heavily limited in the DF setting.

EDIT

If you can just buy stuff out of Basic, your most abusive option is likely some kind of attack power. You could buy a cheap rapid fire crushing attack for example that would be pretty much like a machine gun with infinite ammo, and have plenty of points left over for the DR 20 I mentioned above. Again, this is one the reasons why DF was designed like it was.

evileeyore 02-05-2018 12:03 AM

Re: DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mr beer (Post 2155764)
Damage Resistance explicitly does not apply to the eyes IIRC. You need Nictating Membrane for that.

Tough Skin explicitly doesn't protect the eyes. DR still does, as long as it has no Limitations that say otherwise.



Almost every type of DR in DF has Tough Skin (except the DR on most monsters).

Both Dragon-Blooded and Lizard Men have Nictating Membrane 2 (which is 2 DR for the eyes).

Celti 02-05-2018 12:19 AM

Re: DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by evileeyore (Post 2155798)
Tough Skin explicitly doesn't protect the eyes. DR still does, as long as it has no Limitations that say otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basic Set: Characters, p. 46
By default, natural DR does not protect
your eyes (or windows, if you are a
vehicle) or help against purely mental
attacks, such as telepathy.

From the bottom of the first paragraph of the advantage. Emphasis not added (converted italics from the document to bold here so that it shows up within the quote block).

evileeyore 02-05-2018 01:40 AM

Re: DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Celti (Post 2155801)
From the bottom of the first paragraph of the advantage. Emphasis not added (converted italics from the document to bold here so that it shows up within the quote block).

Huh. Well, it has been a while since I've read Basic... I thought Forcefield just added in equipment protection.

Rupert 02-05-2018 03:32 AM

Re: DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by evileeyore (Post 2155810)
Huh. Well, it has been a while since I've read Basic... I thought Forcefield just added in equipment protection.

It does a bit more than that:
Quote:

Originally Posted by B47
This protects your entire body including your
eyes as well as anything you are carrying, and reduces the damage from
attacks before armor DR. Effects that rely on touch (such as many magic
spells) only affect you if carried by an attack that does enough damage to pierce your DR.

So, Force Fields protect your eye and your gear, and stop touch attacks that don't penetrate, whereas normal DR and armor does not.

mlangsdorf 02-05-2018 05:54 AM

Re: DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rerednaw (Post 2155763)
I've joined a group of melee heavy characters and they are all stating that they have DR for their eyes.

They are both monks and one of them bought Damage Resistance as a power as well. One is human, the other is fluffed as a lizardman but he went the advantages/powers route out of the various books not using the DF templates.

DR 9 on the eyes sounds a bit high to me. Or is this just the norm? In any case I'm curious how this was done.

Nictating Membrane 9 is kind of cheap, but rare.

For ahistoric fantasy games, I've suggested using a fine wire grid, similar to a modern fencer's mask, to cover the eye slits. If your GM allows that, it would give DR 3 before you start worrying about vision/light penalties and would weigh as much as DR 3 plate for the eyes.

An even more advanced option is to put periscopes in front of the eyes. A skilled attacker can still target your eye slits and break the mirrors, effectively blinding you, but being blinded in one eye is better than being blinded in one eye AND taking a hit to the skull.

For high powered fantasy games, solid steel plate face masks that are made transparent somehow (Invisibility spells, Cosmetic Control Metal, whatever) are also popular. There's no real limit to how high you can make the DR at that point: DR 14 isn't unreasonable.

Bruno 02-05-2018 08:36 AM

Re: DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
You can't just make a solid plate out of transparent whatever, unless you're going to add a life support system. There is definitely not enough air circulation with a helmet-like bucket on your head to sustain athletic activity, and the way fantasy PCs tend to wear their armor 24/7, I'd even be worried about surviving the night.
You'd also want climate control, but by the time you're making invisible helmets a Cool enchantment should be manageable.

Ulzgoroth 02-05-2018 08:42 AM

Re: DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
Worth noting that face-protecting DR does protect the eyes.

It's worth noting because there's no way you'd know from the Basic Set...

mlangsdorf 02-05-2018 08:53 AM

Re: DR for the eyes...(Dungeon Fantasy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno (Post 2155850)
You can't just make a solid plate out of transparent whatever, unless you're going to add a life support system. There is definitely not enough air circulation with a helmet-like bucket on your head to sustain athletic activity.

I think people mostly want solid plate over the forehead, temple, eyes, and nose. Having a perforated visor that protects the mouth, cheeks, and jaw is fine: you can breath and talk through it, and getting shot in the face is not nearly as bad as getting shot in the unprotected eyeslits.

By default, the situation is your DR8 visor can be penetrated at the eyeslit chinks by a bodkin arrow doing 5 damage, which almost blinds you in one eye and does 4 injury to your brain. If the arrow did 6 damage, it almost certainly blinds you and does 8 injury and likely makes you roll to resist knockdown at -10. The same arrow to your mouth through a DR8 perforated visor is a knockdown roll at no penalty and only 1-2 points of injury. That's a huge difference.


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