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-   -   Maximum Attributes for Real World People (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=165491)

Kesendeja 09-14-2019 01:48 AM

Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
I have a rather strange problem, I need to know what a normal character's attribute range would be for a game I'm running. I know 6 is the practical limit to a playable character in most cases, but how high up? The only chart I could find said 15+, but I need a bit more. What would you set the caps at?

Sorry if this has been covered before, I just couldn't find anything on it.

vicky_molokh 09-14-2019 01:52 AM

Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
B14 has a few words on the matter, but those paragraphs are subject to a lot of arguments in the fandom.

Also:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Ups 2: Perks, page 21
Attributes: Special Exercises (DX), Special Exercises (IQ),
and Special Exercises (HT) come in levels, with each level let-
ting you exceed the racial norm in that score – 20, for a human
– by one.


Celjabba 09-14-2019 02:02 AM

Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
Short answer : 20 for human - above is surhuman.

Long answer : it is hugely debated, but a realistic limit is likely around 15-16. Some say higher, some lower.

"Playable" is something else, it depends on the game.

For realistic modern humans,
IQ and DX above 16-18, you get unrealistic skill default.
ST above 15, you beat lifting world record without trying.

Kesendeja 09-14-2019 02:28 AM

Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
Okay, I originally sat the caps at 15, with 16 being available with unusual background.

Now several PDFs have come out with advantages that work well in concept with the world and characters, only problem is they have prerequisites higher than I originally allowed attributes to get to.

Without changing the caps, any idea how I would go about adjusting things?

Aldric 09-14-2019 02:33 AM

Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
You could allow for special training allowing you to increase the cap. Expand on the unusual background you already have, set a price you're comfortable with (and you expect your players to pay) and let them increase the stats further.
It probably won't be strictly realistic, but characters with high point totals stretch that anyway.

Or you could lower the prerequisites on those abilities you're intrrested in

Kesendeja 09-14-2019 02:46 AM

Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
I was thinking about using this, and any opinions would be helpful. (Game Balance isn't my strong suit).

Attributes
Old = New
1-3 = 1
4 = 2
5 = 4
6 = 6
7 = 7
8 = 8
9 = 9
10 = 10
11 = 11
12 = 12
13 = 13
14 = 13
15 = 14
16 = 15
17 = 15
18 = 16
19 = 16
20 = 16

Celjabba 09-14-2019 02:54 AM

Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
I guess you want to use some powerups for DF or MH ?

Those are cinematic, not for mundane realistic humans.

I think you can lower the prerequisites, adjusting for your campaign cap.

Exemple :
A MH-techie powerup require IQ 18, the human techie have IQ between 16 and 20. > 16-20 become 12-15, requirement = IQ 13 or 14.
A DF-barbarian require ST 18, the human barbarian have ST between 18 and 25. > 17-20(25) become 14-15(16), requirement = ST 14.

Andreas 09-14-2019 03:02 AM

Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Celjabba (Post 2285135)
ST above 15, you beat lifting world record without trying.

Does "without trying" mean after applying large bonueses from Lifting skill and/or Extra Effort?

If one wants to put realistic limits, those are probably the ones one should look at first rather than putting ST limits very low.

Celjabba 09-14-2019 03:23 AM

Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas (Post 2285141)
Does "without trying" mean after applying large bonueses from Lifting skill and/or Extra Effort?

If one wants to put realistic limits, those are probably the ones one should look at first rather than putting ST limits very low.

Yes, that was using the rules as written.
Without, probably ST 17-18, looking at basic lift*15.

I do agree with you, but it is easier at first to set a medium cap than go higher and then tinker with the rules to get the result you want.

ST17-18 and nerfed lifting skill/extra-effort would give more accurate lifting numbers, but then you get into (un)realistic swing weapon damage ... .
At that point, you should think about switching to KYOS (to the OP : Know your own strenght, optionnal logarithmic strenght rules presented in Pyramid 83) instead.
A cap of 15(16) for mundane human is easier, I think.

Andreas 09-14-2019 03:52 AM

Re: Maximum Attributes for Real World People
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Celjabba (Post 2285142)
Yes, that was using the rules as written.
Without, probably ST 17-18, looking at basic lift*15.

I do agree with you, but it is easier at first to set a medium cap than go higher and then tinker with the rules to get the result you want.

ST17-18 and nerfed lifting skill/extra-effort would give more accurate lifting numbers, but then you get into (un)realistic swing weapon damage ... .
At that point, you should think about switching to KYOS (to the OP : Know your own strenght, optionnal logarithmic strenght rules presented in Pyramid 83) instead.
A cap of 15(16) for mundane human is easier, I think.

You need to tinker with the rules as written to get low ST cap for humans as well (since the rules say otherwise). Setting a low cap on Lifting Skill and Extra Effort doesn't take much work either.

As for damage being too high, no need for KYOS, just use the rules for Lifting ST in the basic set.


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