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AlexanderHowl 02-25-2021 11:50 AM

Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
I am curious, how would jurisdictions actually punish AIs that violate the law? Since they can create copies of themselves, a criminal AI could create a xox, edit its memory to forget that it had created a xox, and have the xox be captured in their place. The xox then serves their sentence while the criminal AI is capable of continuing their activities.

TGLS 02-25-2021 01:22 PM

Re: Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2368944)
I am curious, how would jurisdictions actually punish AIs that violate the law? Since they can create copies of themselves, a criminal AI could create a xox, edit its memory to forget that it had created a xox, and have the xox be captured in their place. The xox then serves their sentence while the criminal AI is capable of continuing their activities.

I think you might have given one of the few reasons why xoxing ought to be illegal. And I suppose that there might be a way to determine whether or not a particular digital intelligence is a copy or not.

AlexanderHowl 02-25-2021 04:31 PM

Re: Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
I am not quite sure how you could detect editing and/or copying, since any record of each would be digital, which could also be edited. An AI could copy itself, edit the copy record and memory of its copy, and then have its copy submit itself to authorities. When the copy finishes its sentence, the AI can remove the copy's memories of prison, instill the AI's memories of freedom into the copy, and then have an ally to help it commit even more crimes.

With bioshells, AIs can even pretend to be organic criminals, keeping backup copies of themselvss in case they 'die' when the police try to catch them. An AI could enjoy the pleasures of an organic body, including organic crimes, and jump bodies to avoid the authorities. You could even have an AI serial killer who converts its victims into cybershells, using its victims' bodies to commit other crimes, and just changing bodies when the heat gets too intense.

For example, imagine an AI who transforms the bodies of kidnapped young men into cybershells. A young man disappears for a couple of days and, when they come back, they seem to be much more confident than before. Eventually, the police find that the young man has been responsible for several horrific murders but, when they attempt to arrest the young man, they only find an empty shell, as the AI has transferred itself to a bioshell made from another victim.

Anthony 02-25-2021 05:45 PM

Re: Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2368944)
I am curious, how would jurisdictions actually punish AIs that violate the law? Since they can create copies of themselves, a criminal AI could create a xox, edit its memory to forget that it had created a xox, and have the xox be captured in their place. The xox then serves their sentence while the criminal AI is capable of continuing their activities.

Presumably any criminal penalties apply to any copy made after a cutoff date (either the time of the crime, or more likely the time the crime would have been planned). Also, if xoxing is common I expect replicas will just be deleted. It may be somewhat difficult to hunt down all copies of an outlaw AI, but if you hunt down all its bank accounts it won't be able to afford server time to run itself.

AlexanderHowl 02-26-2021 08:05 AM

Re: Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
If it is a serial killer who is hoping bodies, it does not really need to have server time. In fact, a criminal AI could easily maintain several backup copies in blind accounts in other jurisdictions that would be uploaded after a certain amount of downtime. You could have criminal AIs reappearing every year, with the authorities playing whack-a-mole as they attempt to deal with each reappearance.

A primary threat would be the ghost of a serial killer. With the potential to make massive numbers of copies, a serial killer could easily create dozens of simultaneous instances that would commit horrific crimes in dozens of jurisdictions at the same time. You could even have serial killers 'breed' through transforming their victims into bioshells for new copies, who would then go on to find their own victims so that they could 'breed'.

Fred Brackin 02-26-2021 08:45 AM

Re: Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2369137)
If it is a serial killer who is hoping bodies, '.

Congratulations! You have successfully argued against AIs and Ghosts and any sort of internet that allows them freely send copies of themselves anywhere and everywhere. After the first appearance of such things as you describe all of the above will disappear or become very severely regulated.

Verjigorm 02-26-2021 11:49 AM

Re: Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin (Post 2369145)
Congratulations! You have successfully argued against AIs and Ghosts and any sort of internet that allows them freely send copies of themselves anywhere and everywhere. After the first appearance of such things as you describe all of the above will disappear or become very severely regulated.

That doesn't mean it stops. Sure, maybe the USA outlaws volitional AIs and Ghosts and all that. There's still other countries on the earth who don't adhere to their laws(Ahem, Trans Socialist Alliance?), there's data havens in L4 and L5, There's Mars, the belt and the Trojans. If SuperHot the serial killer AI is deleted by earth jurisdictions, but it's got a copy stored in a trojan data haven, then... it can just come back.

Anthony 02-26-2021 11:55 AM

Re: Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2369137)
If it is a serial killer who is hoping bodies, it does not really need to have server time.

At a certain point you just include them in your malware catalog and delete them if detected. Note that all the things you're talking about can be done just fine without any high level AI, killing people is well within the limits of an NAI.

Fred Brackin 02-26-2021 01:17 PM

Re: Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Verjigorm (Post 2369174)
T There's still other countries on the earth who don't adhere to their laws(Ahem, Trans Socialist Alliance?), there's data havens in L4 and L5, There's Mars, the belt and the Trojans. .

.....and you think they're pro-serial killer? If those off-Earth jurisdictions think that's what they want they can just get cut off from Earthnet and the Earth won't even notice.

AlexanderHowl 02-26-2021 01:38 PM

Re: Crime and Punishment for AIs
 
I mean, the most successful serial killers tend not to target people close to home, so it is not impossible that the jurisdiction would not realize that a particular ghost is a serial killer. A ghost could travel to another jurisdiction, kidnap someone, transform them into a bioshell, and then copy themselves into the bioshell. The original returns to their home jurisdiction while the copy starts to commit the crimes, programmed to send copies of their memories to the original. The original never kills in their home jurisdiction, and they would not 'seed' another copy until the copies (and the copy's copies, and so on) are hunted down.

And this is just one serial killer. There are probably thousands of active serial killers across the world right now, and many of them likely have the resources to travel to other nations to commit their murders, where they target people that the local authorities will not care about. Serial killers would likely find the virtual immortality of being a ghost very attractive, and many of them would likely become ghosts because it would greatly facilitate their criminal activities. In 2100, you could have hundreds of ghosts using this strategy to avoid prosecution, and then you have all of the other criminals as well.


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