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-   -   Rev Trike Costs : Rules & Ambiguous Wording etc . (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=173595)

swordtart 09-03-2021 02:20 PM

Re: Rev Trike Costs : Rules & Ambiguous Wording etc .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer (Post 2394959)
Another thing with the cost increases for 'Body/Chassis' for Reverse Trikes , actually save MORE cash if you use a Light Chass ! At least according to Combat Garage builder . A quirk that might be beneficial if it's correct .

I've been revamping all the Cycles from VG1as Lt. Trikes & noticed this on my 920lb version of the RoadMiser ( TrikeMiser ? Lol ) as a HC 2 Rev. Lt. Trike & it keeps costs down . It's better than the Windshell & LMG Cycle versions of the Road Miser with no Armour anyway .
Think apart from pure speed (Cycles) or pure handling (Sub Compacts) , Light or stripped down Medium Trikes do a far better showing in combat than a majority of Cycles or Subs most of the time . Surprised how many $6K+ Cycles & Subs you can build as under $5 Trikes instead is astounding .
.

I take it you are referring to a modified Road Miser (since none of the published options have an LMG or a Cycle Shell) - in which case it isn't really a Road Miser.

Whilst there are obviously tunes to be played in comparing bikes and trikes it should be remembered that you need extra armour on the sides of the trike to offset the ability of an enemy to target these from the front arc without penalty and you have an extra tire. The cheapest light cycle will always be cheaper than the cheapest light trike. That is the USP of the Road Miser (esp, the HR variant). You cannot get equivalent performance with a trike unless it is significantly more expensive.

Don't get me wrong, spend another $500 and you can have a trike with 42 points of sloped armour with all internal components having 10 pt CA each and significantly improve your survivability. But unless you spend yet another $500 to upgrade the plant you will only have 5 Acc. This is sensible progression if you were a lowly biker and came into a few quid, but if you had $2800 would you chose to start here?

The light trike chassis is more expensive by default and whilst you could reduce the suspension with a reversed configuration and save some cost there, it doesn't offset the extra cost of the chassis plus an extra tire especially with the additional cost of the reversal.

A reversed light chassis cost 150% of 80% or 120%. You do save more, but only because you are spending more in the first place.

With all things it is a matter of balance. A sub compact has better handling by default and so a light suspension is less of a burden. The chassis weight of a sub is far to high a proportion of it's load limit. A trike requires more armour and tires than a bike and is more expensive. It has better weight allowance, but the cost of the extra equipment you will use to fill that allowance is going to make it more expensive yet. Of course at least you can get all aspect armour but once CA came out the cycle shell was largely superfluous. None of these trades are unusual in the game.

Racer 09-03-2021 07:42 PM

Re: Rev Trike Costs : Rules & Ambiguous Wording etc .
 
Windshell version on Combat Garage I meant . Can't take any Cycles with unprotected Cyclists ( either CA , Windshell or both ) particularly seriously now .
After seeing two Road Misers - or near copies - both being taken out with a single White Phosphorus Grenade , thought "no that ain't good" . The pile up as some of trailing pack hit the wreaked cycles , Big Mac fuming as we laughed & overall stupidity of situation compounded this conclusion ...

My 'Trike Miser' comes in at $3,380 , which compares well with $3,120 for Road Miser II . Both have 10 Acceleration , 120mph Top Speed & HC 2 , which is what I was aiming for .

We've all seen most of Cycle construction rules layed down 40 years ago don't really compete with later vehicle design advantages .

If they were publishing the game today ( or 15 years ago ) , I think there would be much better equivalency between vehicle types . Many of the old stat numbers seem to have been come up with with not much thought . No google searches or online 'peer reviews' to double check or comprise workable solutions back then . Sword Boy , his Som McCloud , T-Rex , myself etc have long discussed these anomalous quirks & have been batting around solutions for 10+ years . If 2.5 version was still being supported , then we'd post our findings for all to post their opinions on .

Our groups do use Cycles - mainly in OR Scenarios - but they'll never be our first choices for Road or Arena combat for now . *Sigh* it's a pity as some of the old counters & metal miniatures were so cool in the '80's ...

swordtart 09-04-2021 04:20 AM

Re: Rev Trike Costs : Rules & Ambiguous Wording etc .
 
An non-CA cycle can be credible in some circumstances.

The most plausible reason for no CA is that you are using a light bike and cannot afford the minimal space. That is very edge-condition.

Dragoon transport. A scenario when you catch them in transit is therefore not unfair. They will be relying on the pillion with a hand weapon (but this might cost almost as much as the bike). The bikes will be fast and OR and that will be how they travel unless they can avoid it. If you meet them when they are deployed you wont even know they have bikes until they extract.

Zoom and Boom for novice bikers. Single shot possibly kami-bomb rather than HR. AP MiR gives you three times as much chance to hit (an extra $100 when you include the link), you will have Gunner 1 at most so relying on a one shot hit is sub-optimal. Even an idiot will hit given enough chances. These need to be in numbers (and get close), but fortunately these are cheap (as are the gangers). They will probably only be a nuisance, but they can wear you down for the rest of the gang and they winnow out the useless mouths. If they approach from shoulders at high speed, they can close before you get many shots off at them. Each direct weapon hit can affect a maximum of 1 bike component (regardless of how much damage it does). How surprised will he be when his 4d6 weapon only knocks off a third of your fire-power.

If you don't drive through cloud weapons you will be ok (and if you come in waves there may not be any left for when it is your turn).

Three bikes with no vehicular weapons managed to take out a heavily armed and armoured escort. He only hit one on the way in with his BC and only took out the plant so the bike was still cruising (burst effect roll was low and everyone had shreds of BA or intact armour between them and the blast). As they passed at point blank each pillion fired an AR into his front tire and even the riders had a pop with shotguns. He lost his front tire and even though he managed to swerve and clip one of the bikes and take it out he was out of the running fight. The rest of the convoy killed the other two but exhausted all their DW in the process. The next wave of gangers (using 5 subcompacts armed with 6 AP MiR each) killed the other escort and the rig and forced the surrender of the wounded escort.


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