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phiwum 04-20-2021 05:53 AM

Glamor
 
The Glamor spell as written is a little vague on some details, so I thought I'd ask here.

Suppose a wizard wants to look like a strong, battleaxe-wielding barbarian. Now, I assume that the wizard's clothing will change to the required leather loincloth or whatnot, but what about other accoutrements? Does his staff look like a battleaxe? Or does he have to find a battleaxe and ditch the staff to complete the ensemble?


Can Glamor make him look like he's carrying any item he wants, even though he's empty-handed?

It's a thrown spell which can only be ended with Remove Thrown Spell or when the wizard wills it away, so you can cast it on allies. More interestingly, you can cast it on anybody. Your blind date turned out to be a terrible, self-centered boor? Let him live the next few weeks (or longer) as an old spinster and see how he likes it. The really attractive prostitutes are too expensive? A glamor spell and a cheap hooker will do the trick, though you'll want to consider the effects of the 10 fatigue cost. And so on.

I tend to think that the clothing should change, because otherwise the spell is too limited. This would apply to armor too. I'm leaning to saying that things carried in hand appear as they really are. I have no principled reasons for these choices. It just feels right.

phiwum 04-20-2021 10:52 AM

Re: Glamor
 
I noticed that Helborn wrote a post of houserules which said that glamor applied to clothing and gear.

I might accept that gear in hand or worn at the time of casting could be all glamored up, but I'm a wee concerned about the battleaxe-wielding thug who appears to be holding a parasol. He could be a real problem (and I don't relish explaining the massive slice for 13 points of damage that the parasol just delivered). The wimpy dagger-wielding goblin who looks like a battleaxe user is less of an issue.

hcobb 04-20-2021 11:00 AM

Re: Glamor
 
Extending Glamor to clothing would negate the use of the disguise talent which is supposed to be used with the spell as per ITL 44.

Shostak 04-20-2021 12:37 PM

Re: Glamor
 
I'd say Glamor extends to clothing and worn items.
Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb (Post 2376271)
Extending Glamor to clothing would negate the use of the disguise talent which is supposed to be used with the spell as per ITL 44.

Glamor is not specifically mentioned under Disguise, but it is pretty clear from the spell's description that it is far more effective than the skill--certainly more so than the -1d benefit illusory additions to disguise confer.

phiwum 04-20-2021 02:09 PM

Re: Glamor
 
Yes, there seems to be an oddity in the text of Glamor and Disguise. Glamor by itself gives no die roll to penetrate, other than for those with Mage Sight. Disguise with Glamor gets a die roll, which makes it strictly worse than Glamor.

But I don't think Glamor allows you to impersonate a specific person. It allows you to change your appearance, but not to appear as a particular person. You couldn't be the Duke and maybe you couldn't be a non-specific member of the Duke's guards (though I'm not sure about that).

Anyway, if I'm right on that, it would explain how Disguise is less effective than Disguise + Glamor and Disguise + Glamor is not really less effective than Glamor, since Glamor doesn't play the same role.

phiwum 04-20-2021 02:10 PM

Re: Glamor
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shostak (Post 2376280)
I'd say Glamor extends to clothing and worn items.
Glamor is not specifically mentioned under Disguise, but it is pretty clear from the spell's description that it is far more effective than the skill--certainly more so than the -1d benefit illusory additions to disguise confer.

I think you're mistaken, Shostak. On ITL 44, it says
Quote:

If a wizard casts a Glamor or shape-shift to perfect your
physical appearance, you roll one fewer dice.

hcobb 04-20-2021 04:53 PM

Re: Glamor
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by phiwum (Post 2376291)
You couldn't be the Duke

Read Tollenkars Lair please

phiwum 04-20-2021 05:00 PM

Re: Glamor
 
Ah, you're right, I haven't read it. I won't get to it today, since I haven't a searchable PDF. Perhaps you could quote an excerpt that's relevant or give me the gist of it? (Perhaps in spoiler tags or by PM?)

Well, if one can use Glamor to impersonate the Duke, then it's a puzzle why according to RAW, Disguise + Glamor isn't as good as Glamor. I reckon I'll stick with my interpretation that Disguise allows impersonation and Glamor doesn't, since otherwise the rules don't seem to make any sense.

Of course, your claim that clothing can't change would also nerf Glamor so that disguise would be necessary, but would require that posing as a large wolf or an ape, say, requires running around nekkid the whole day. Changing your appearance when someone is in pursuit would have limited effect since your clothing is the same. Changing your size from goblin to elf would require buying a new set of clothes entirely. Which is all a possible interpretation.

hcobb 04-20-2021 05:20 PM

Re: Glamor
 
Reading through all the preparations of the big plot at the end of Tollenkar's Lair will resolve a lot of your issues. (And why Tollenkar is going to fall flat on his face even if the PCs do nothing because he's a nerdish wizard...)

Kieddicus 04-20-2021 06:30 PM

Re: Glamor
 
I don't let Glamour change any items or cloths. Though it will slightly alter them to avoid any clipping with the Glamour spell.


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