Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (http://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   GURPS (http://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Bestowing Personality-based Powers (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=173246)

Coinage 05-10-2021 02:10 PM

Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
I was wondering if anyone has any idea on how an entity could bestow superpowers based on a person's personality. Examples off the top of my headI have seen are the Hulk and other Gamma-based superheroes, Warren Ellis's comic book No Hero, and the Persona video game series.

I already think of having a version of Modular Abilities (B71), with Enhancements: any Mental or Physical [+100%] (B71), any Social [+50%] (P63), and Limitations: Limited, "Affliction, Advantage, Super-Powers", [-30%] (P64).

The Modular Abilities would be limited to Affliction [10/lvl] (B35) with the Limitation: Extended Duration, Permanent, no way to end the effect [+300%] (B104).

I am wondering, however, what the cost of the limitation so that the Advantage afflicted is limited to something regarding the person's personality.

In addition, I would probably have the targeted characters each take some sort of Mental or Physical Quirk or Disadvantage, which would influence what kind of power they get. For example, like having a Phobia (B148) or something.

the_matrix_walker 05-10-2021 02:39 PM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
I would first build your basic Affliction, with everything but the "Added Advantage" enhancement.

Then take a Cosmic Modular Ability with the limitation "Only to add Added Advantage Enhancements to Affliction" or you can use the variable enhancement rules in PU 4: Enhancements (as a limited enhancement, Added Advantage enhancements only) to add to the Affliction.

Note that you are only modifying a single Affliction, so you do not need social. If your Affliction is a Malediction, you do not need Physical, as the power you are modifying is Mental, and if it is not a Meldiction, you only need Physical Only, +50% to modify your physical Affliction.

As for the limitation of the power being accompanied by a disadvantage, you can make a meta-trait based on adding the advantage to the disadvantage to afflict or include it in the power as a "Required Disadvantage" which will give you some points back, similar to a pact.

And if you do not want control over the results, that sounds like its own custom limitation along the lines of "uncontrollable+unconscious only" and will likely just be a judgement call, but I'd probably place it at about -30%

Coinage 05-10-2021 04:03 PM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Here is what I have:

-Affliction, Advantage 1 [10 / lvl = 10] (B35)
Enhancements
--Advantage, 500 points [+10% per point the advantage is worth, + 5000% = 500] (B36)
--Mental and Physical [+100% = +10] (B71)
--Permanent, cannot be removed [300% + 30] (B104)
--Variable Enhancement [x10 = 100] (PU4, p. 5)

Limitations:
--Accessibility: Advantages given must all be in response to pre-existing Mental and/or Physical Disadvantages [-50% = -5] (PU8, p. 4)
--Accessibility: Only once a year [-60% =-6] (PU8, p. 4)
Total: 644


The price for the Advantage was around 500 was chosen because it is the cost of various templates from GURPS Supers, namely the Biomorph [500], Blaster [500], Improviser [500], Kinetic [500], Man Plus [500], Mesmerist [500], Metamorph [500], Renaissance Man [500], Sifu [500], Shaper [500], Speedster [500], Superman [500], Techno [500], (see Supers, p. 41-56). Obviously I am wiling to change the point around.

Obviously, I was thinking of giving this to an NPC, probably a villain. I was inspired by the French tv show “Miraculous, les aventures de Ladybug et Chat Noir”. The main villain in that show Hawk Moth ("Le Papillon", lit "The Butterfly", in the original French dub), has the power to turn any civilian into a supervillain if they have a bad day using akumas (literally "devil"), butterflies infused with dark energy.

How is it?

the_matrix_walker 05-10-2021 06:10 PM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Looks like you are crossing your streams a bit there.

The variable Enhancement is 10% per 1%, so if you want 500 points of ability, that is ten times the +5,000%, that's +50,000%.

I'd be super-generous and let you limit the enhancement with a "Added Advantage enhancements based on the subject's personality with no input from the user, -80%" to bring it down to +10,000%

-----------------------------

Having an Affliction work more than once on a subject during the duration is "Cumulative" which is a +400% enhancement. It is not a limitation to use this ability only once a year on someone.

------------------------------

There really is no need to figure out a point value for an ability for an NPC, but it can be a fun thought experiment.

Coinage 05-10-2021 08:53 PM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Sorry, it doesn't work more than once on the same person (unless that person somehow loses their powres). Rather, it can only be used roughly once per year to empower a non-empowered person. If a person is already empowered, then they cannot be "re-empowered".

------------------------------

I just wanted to know for sure how the ability is actually statted out. I'm the kind of guy who likes things spelled out clearly.

Coinage 05-10-2021 09:10 PM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker (Post 2379248)
Looks like you are crossing your streams a bit there.

The variable Enhancement is 10% per 1%, so if you want 500 points of ability, that is ten times the +5,000%, that's +50,000%.

I'd be super-generous and let you limit the enhancement with a "Added Advantage enhancements based on the subject's personality with no input from the user, -80%" to bring it down to +10,000%

Also, Power-Ups 4 says that "The value of Variable Enhancement is equal to 10x the cost of the enhancements that can be added (minimum final cost of +50%).".

The example given in the book is that a character takes Burning Attack 2d with a cost of [10]. With Variable Enhancement, the cost added is [+150% = +15], for a total of [25].

This does suggest that the cost is added to the base Advantage itself, not to the accumulated cost of the Enhancements added to the Advantage.

Basic does list the option to "Afflict Advantage" under the heading of "Special Enhancements".

Now, as far as I know, Enhancements are calculated from the BASE COST of the Trait. For example, let's say I take a Burning Innate Attack level 2 [10], with Cone [+ 50 = 5] (B103) and Cosmic [+50% = +5] (B103). If I want to calculate how much is added by taking the Enhancement: Cosmic, I take the base cost 10 and multiply it by 50% [5].

I don't add take the base cost of 10, add the cost of the enhancement Cone [+5], for a total of [15], then calculate the additional cost of Cosmic [50% of 15 = 7.5. 7.5 + 15 = 22.5, rounded up is 23].

The additional cost of the Enhancement is calculated based on the price of the base Advantage alone.

I thought the same logic applied for Variable Enhancement. The base cost of Affliction at level 1 is 10. RAW says that Variable Enhancement is x10 the cost of the Advantage. 10 x 10 = 100. From my reading, the special enhancement of "Advantage" for Affliction is an Enhancement, and would not factor into determining the additional cost accrued by taking the Variable Enhancement.

Or maybe I missed something? This does raise the question: For the purpose of calculating the cost, does the fact that the "Afflict Advantage" aspect of Affliction count as an Enhancement to the Advantage, OR is it part of the base Advantage?

the_matrix_walker 05-11-2021 12:23 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
You add up all of your enhancements and limitations together before applying it to the base cost of the ability.

Afflicted Advantages are Enhancements on the Affliction Power.

A Variable Enhancement is ten times the value of the largest enhancement you can configure that Variable Enhancement into.

a 100% variable enhancement can be any +10% in applied enhancements
a 1,000% variable enhancement can be any +100% in applied enhancements

So if you want to afflict a 10 point advantage, it is a +100% enhancement
And if you want to afflict ANY 10 point advantage, you need to be able to vary that 100%, which would be a +1,000% Variable Enhancement.

You will not be taking an "Added Advantage" enhancement, as that would be fixed at the creation of the power. You need enough Variable Enhancement to buy the Added Advantage Enhancement you want at the time you use your power.

The Variable Enhancement does not let you use other existing enhancements for other things, it lets you improvise brand new enhancements on the fly

Does that help?

Inky 05-11-2021 03:48 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Isn't this a little like Dominance (the advantage that werewolves have to turn other people into werewolves)? Dominance is MUCH cheaper than Matrix_walker's +10,000% - it's 20 points plus the price of buying each victim as an Ally.

Dominance includes being able to control the victims. I'm not sure whether you want your villain to be able to control the victims or not. Maybe instead of being controlled directly by the villain they get Disadvantages along with the superpower package that make them cause trouble on their own initiative.

This power, unlike regular Dominance, allows for different powers to be given each time, so it should cost more, but it sounds as if the villain can't control which power, so not much more.

Anders 05-11-2021 03:53 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
I'd use Wildcard power from Supers. Pay 4 times the cost for a power and you can use it for whatever the GM thinks is reasonable. Buy the most expensive power you want to be able to use, pay 4 times the cost and call it a day.

the_matrix_walker 05-11-2021 08:10 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Inky (Post 2379288)
Isn't this a little like Dominance (the advantage that werewolves have to turn other people into werewolves)? Dominance is MUCH cheaper than Matrix_walker's +10,000% - it's 20 points plus the price of buying each victim as an Ally.

Dominance includes being able to control the victims. I'm not sure whether you want your villain to be able to control the victims or not. Maybe instead of being controlled directly by the villain they get Disadvantages along with the superpower package that make them cause trouble on their own initiative.

This power, unlike regular Dominance, allows for different powers to be given each time, so it should cost more, but it sounds as if the villain can't control which power, so not much more.

I had considered the dominance route, but he has not indicated that he wanted the afflicted folks to be Allies, which is part of the scheme...

Kromm discusses it here:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm (Post 394334)
I'd argue that the way to do it would be to take Dominance (p. B50) at a flat 20 points and start buying Allies at the usual price. My reasoning for this is straightforward. The ability to give Allies powers is worth nothing to you per se. Two things are worth points, though:

1. Having Allies with powers. You pay for this when you buy Allies. If the Allies have enough powers, they cost more points as Allies. It's really quite irrelevant whether they had their powers originally or got them from you. What matters is their final point level after considering their powers.

2. Making new Allies whenever you have the points. You pay for this when you buy Dominance. The fact that you create willing Allies who lose their powers if they break a Pact, and not slave Allies per se, is a +0% special effect; the important thing is that they're in some way beholden to you. Likewise, the fact that your Allies' powers are something other than the ability to create new Allies for you is a +0% special effect; the important thing is that the Allies have some power that benefits you.

Only use Affliction when you can give anybody, Ally or not, powers. The game has rules for permanent Afflictions, and note that Extended Duration, Permanent costs +300% instead of +150% unless it has a built-in terminal condition . . . so certainly, if you can go about granting advantages to people who aren't Allies, it's easy enough to rig. "Doesn't obey a Pact" is an entirely valid terminal condition -- and it can screw you, since unless you have infallible subjects, they'll inevitably violate their Pact in some small way and suddenly end up powerless even when you would have forgiven them their indiscretion. More important, your enemies can tempt your empowered pals to stray, thereby disempowering your bodyguards and followers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders (Post 2379289)
I'd use Wildcard power from Supers. Pay 4 times the cost for a power and you can use it for whatever the GM thinks is reasonable. Buy the most expensive power you want to be able to use, pay 4 times the cost and call it a day.

But 4 times what? do you mean to price the "added advantage" as "Appropriate template" and then charge 4x for the affliction, without a defined basic ability?

Anders 05-11-2021 08:35 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker (Post 2379309)
But 4 times what? do you mean to price the "added advantage" as "Appropriate template" and then charge 4x for the affliction, without a defined basic ability?

Yeah. Afflict the most expensive metatrait and then buy that as a Wildcard power.

Coinage 05-11-2021 09:15 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Inky (Post 2379288)
Isn't this a little like Dominance (the advantage that werewolves have to turn other people into werewolves)? Dominance is MUCH cheaper than Matrix_walker's +10,000% - it's 20 points plus the price of buying each victim as an Ally.

Dominance includes being able to control the victims. I'm not sure whether you want your villain to be able to control the victims or not. Maybe instead of being controlled directly by the villain they get Disadvantages along with the superpower package that make them cause trouble on their own initiative.

This power, unlike regular Dominance, allows for different powers to be given each time, so it should cost more, but it sounds as if the villain can't control which power, so not much more.

Dominance would be interesting. However, I don't want the victims to be controlled.

Also, I don't want the victims to be "re-infected". Once the victims get powers, then they don't get them a second time (unless they somehow lose their powers and become human again. Then re-infection might be possible).

In addition, powers have to be based at least somewhat on personality

My guess is that it would be some version of "Accessibility" or something like that. How exactly would the Limitations be priced?

Coinage 05-11-2021 09:22 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Here is a version of it with the wild-card ability, based on the Supers recommendation.

-Affliction, Advantage 1 [10 / lvl = 10] (B35)

Enhancements
--Advantage, 500 points [+10% per point the advantage is worth, + 5000% = 500] (B36)
--Mental and Physical [+100% = +10] (B71)
--Permanent, cannot be removed [300% + 30] (B104)

Limitations:
--Accessibility: Advantages given are limited to be in response to pre-existing Mental and/or Physical Disadvantages [-50% = -5] (PU8, p. 4)
--Accessibility: Only once a year [-60% =-6] (PU8, p. 4)
Sum: 644

--Wild Card: "Can bestow any power, but the powers are ultimately unpredictable and based on the recipient’s present circumstances, past background, worries about the future, personality, and other factors. Also, a person only be empowered once.” [x4] (S41)
Total: 2156

How does that sound?

Anders 05-11-2021 09:31 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
It's expensive as all hell, but it's a very versatile power. Yeah, I think I can buy that.

Now, would I allow a PC to have it? Hell no.

Donny Brook 05-11-2021 10:24 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
I think I'd start from the other end:

Modular Abilities (Cosmic Pool, 10/lvl)(Afflictions only -30%, Focus limited: Permanent traits only -5%, Accessibility: only related to traits already possessed by the target -40%, Uncontrollable: cannot choose what trait is afflicted (Modifier on a modfier -30% of Afflictions only limitation) -9%, Net -84% capped at -80%) [2/lvl].

Buy levels to reflect the cost of the Afflictions you want to apply. Duplicate this power for Physical-Only Modular Ability and make the cheaper version an Alternate ability. Consult GM for value of reduction for extreme rarity of use if applicable.

Culture20 05-11-2021 10:31 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
If you have no control over what powers are created, but want to be able to empower people at-will, there always the cheap option of Controllable Disadvantage (Origins Magnet). Offload all the work to the GM. GMs love extra homework. It's what fuels them.

Coinage 05-11-2021 11:21 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders (Post 2379334)
It's expensive as all hell, but it's a very versatile power. Yeah, I think I can buy that.

Now, would I allow a PC to have it? Hell no.

Agreed. It was just a way for me to stat out a specific power for a NPC.

Sort of like the character of "Calamity" from brandon Sanderson's Epic book series.

the_matrix_walker 05-11-2021 12:43 PM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
"Mental and Physical, +100%" is a special enhancement for Modular abilities, and you are not using those here. There is no need for that enhancement on an Affliction.

Coinage 05-11-2021 03:21 PM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker (Post 2379370)
"Mental and Physical, +100%" is a special enhancement for Modular abilities, and you are not using those here. There is no need for that enhancement on an Affliction.

Okay, updating:

-Affliction, Advantage 1 [10 / lvl = 10] (B35)

Enhancements
--Advantage, 500 points [+10% per point the advantage is worth, + 5000% = 500] (B36)
--Permanent, cannot be removed [300% + 30] (B104)

Limitations:
--Accessibility: Advantages given are limited to be in response to pre-existing Mental and/or Physical Disadvantages [-50% = -5] (PU8, p. 4)
--Accessibility: Only once a year [-60% =-6] (PU8, p. 4)
Sum: 529

--Wild Card: "Can bestow any power, but the powers are ultimately unpredictable and based on the recipient’s present circumstances, past background, worries about the future, personality, and other factors. Also, a person only be empowered once.” [x4] (S41)
Total: 2116

How does that sound?

the_matrix_walker 05-12-2021 08:21 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Coinage (Post 2379386)
Okay, updating:

-Affliction, Advantage 1 [10 / lvl = 10] (B35)

Enhancements
--Advantage, 500 points [+10% per point the advantage is worth, + 5000% = 500] (B36)
--Permanent, cannot be removed [300% + 30] (B104)

Limitations:
--Accessibility: Advantages given are limited to be in response to pre-existing Mental and/or Physical Disadvantages [-50% = -5] (PU8, p. 4)
--Accessibility: Only once a year [-60% =-6] (PU8, p. 4)
Sum: 529

--Wild Card: "Can bestow any power, but the powers are ultimately unpredictable and based on the recipient’s present circumstances, past background, worries about the future, personality, and other factors. Also, a person only be empowered once.” [x4] (S41)
Total: 2116

How does that sound?

Let me recommend phrasing the accessibility as dependant on the subject's traits rather than specifically their disadvantages, which opens the door to enhance things they are already good at in their existing nature, which is as much a trope in the nature of acquired powers as disadvantage based ones are.


Also, if you are only able to access this power annually, the discount should be greater than -60%. I might just price it as a character point powered ability, or take some Destiny (only to power CP powered abilities) and set it to BE a cp powered ability for 1/5th cost.

Donny Brook 05-12-2021 10:07 AM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Coinage (Post 2379331)
...
Total: 2156

How does that sound?

I think my way would be much cheaper. Spending [960] would let give someone permanent ATS.

the_matrix_walker 05-12-2021 06:36 PM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
There is something that I find a little problematic about using limitations to represent amplifying a person's characteristics when selecting an Affliction from a Modular Ability. How does the uncontrollable power know about the subject's personality traits?

One of the things I like about the Wildcard! version is it can be far more "hand-wavey" in my mind.

With Modular Abilities, we are talking about a two-stage process, where you set up your power with Modular abilities, and then grant the ability to a subject. But a Modular Ability does not have a subject.

Are we talking about what the person using the ability believes the target's traits are or their actual traits? I think the idea is the latter. So we might need some Cosmic to use a Detect based Homing effect, or link a Detect to the Modular ability.

If you want to price this out as a Cosmic Modular Ability, use the Slotted version, it will be a significant savings.

In the end, I think I would just endorse...

Origins Magnet (Cosmic, Can Target once a year, +300%) [30]

Coinage 05-12-2021 07:05 PM

Re: Bestowing Personality-based Powers
 
Here is what I have taken from the recommendation of “Donny Brook”

-Modular Abilities, Cosmic Power 500 [10 / lvl = 5000] (B71)
ENHANCEMENTS:
--Physical Only [+50% = +2500]

LIMITATIONS:
--Accessibility: only related to traits already possessed by the target [-40% = -2000](PU8, p. 4)
--Accessibility: only permanent Afflictions allowed [-5% = -250] (PU8, p. 4)
--Advantages Only: Affliction, Advantages [-40% = -2000] ({64)
--Uncontrollable: cannot choose what trait is afflicted [-9% = -450] (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...=173246&page=2, comment 15)

Total: 2,800



Based on the recommendation of “the_matrix_walker”, here is another version:

-Affliction, Advantage 1 [10 / lvl = 10] (B35)
Enhancements
--Advantage, 500 points [+10% per point the advantage is worth, + 5000% = 500] (B36)
--Permanent, cannot be removed [300% + 30] (B104)

Limitations:
--Accessibility: Advantages given are limited to be in response to character’s traits [-50% = -5] (PU8, p. 4)
--Accessibility: Only once a year [-70% =-7] (PU8, p. 4)
Sum: 529

--Wild Card: "Can bestow any power, but the powers are ultimately unpredictable and based on the recipient’s present circumstances, past background, worries about the future, personality, and other factors. Also, a person only be empowered once.” [x4] (S41)
Total: 2115


Then there is the Origins Magnet approach:

Origins Magnet [-15] (S32)
ENHANCEMENTS
-Cosmic: Can Target one individual once a year, [+300% = +45] (PU4, p. 8)
NOTES:
-Resulting powers should be based on character's personality, psychological and mental problems and quirks, and other personal traits
Sum Total: 30

MMM, I do think the Origins Magnet route is probably the cheapest, and the simplest in terms of math. Thanks.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.