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-   -   Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=138649)

sonic232 11-06-2015 09:09 AM

Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
My question is fairly basic. I'm getting ready to unleash Ritual Path Magic on my Infinite Worlds campaign, but there's a few things that I want to see if they're fair or not. I know that to cross dimensions, it should be a Greater Create Crossroads effect. The Secret itself should be a Hidden Lore and be necessary to be able to direct Crossroads effects to other alternate worlds. Each world itself would be a Ritual Mastery perk, not just the ritual to cross worlds.

As a base from GURPS Magic, Plane Shift doesn't appear to have SET penalties for moving between Quanta, but Infinite Worlds has the cost of jumping between Quanta with the Jumper advantage cost much more each time. For RPM, should the base +10 per dimension cross be used when going to a greater/lower Quantum or should some variant of the Range/Speed modifier be used?

The discovery of new worlds: This would appear to be a Sense Crossroads effect. Lesser if you are scrying a Nexus portal to see where it goes, Greater if you're trying to discover new ones (Though you'd need other sense effects to lock onto something about that dimension in the first place) or are trying to determine the dimension of origin of a Crosstime traveller. Once you've used Sense Crossroads to pinpoint a world, you should be able to use Create Crossroads.

I know this will become a question once I introduce RPM to the campaign, so I figured I'd get them taken care of sooner rather than later. So advice for these concerns and bringing up other concerns would be appreciated.

Christopher R. Rice 11-06-2015 09:32 AM

Re: Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic232 (Post 1950432)
My question is fairly basic. I'm getting ready to unleash Ritual Path Magic on my Infinite Worlds campaign, but there's a few things that I want to see if they're fair or not. I know that to cross dimensions, it should be a Greater Create Crossroads effect. The Secret itself should be a Hidden Lore and be necessary to be able to direct Crossroads effects to other alternate worlds. Each world itself would be a Ritual Mastery perk, not just the ritual to cross worlds.

As a base from GURPS Magic, Plane Shift doesn't appear to have SET penalties for moving between Quanta, but Infinite Worlds has the cost of jumping between Quanta with the Jumper advantage cost much more each time. For RPM, should the base +10 per dimension cross be used when going to a greater/lower Quantum or should some variant of the Range/Speed modifier be used?

The discovery of new worlds: This would appear to be a Sense Crossroads effect. Lesser if you are scrying a Nexus portal to see where it goes, Greater if you're trying to discover new ones (Though you'd need other sense effects to lock onto something about that dimension in the first place) or are trying to determine the dimension of origin of a Crosstime traveller. Once you've used Sense Crossroads to pinpoint a world, you should be able to use Create Crossroads.

I know this will become a question once I introduce RPM to the campaign, so I figured I'd get them taken care of sooner rather than later. So advice for these concerns and bringing up other concerns would be appreciated.


Yeah, I'd use +10 per Q-shift.

PK 11-06-2015 09:58 AM

Re: Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
Personally, I like to make traveling between quanta fairly hard. I'd charge +10 for travel between worlds in the same quantum, +20 for moving one quantum over, +40 for two, +80 for three, etc. But if the GM doesn't want quantum range to play as a big a role, a flat +10/quantum (minimum +10) is a viable option instead.

GodBeastX 11-06-2015 10:14 AM

Re: Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
This is unrelated to the question, but related to the topic. Some worlds have trouble with shifting, right? Like Banestorm?

sonic232 11-06-2015 10:19 AM

Re: Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer (Post 1950456)
Yeah, I'd use +10 per Q-shift.

Given that, I propose the following rituals:

Create Nexus Portal: Create a gateway to a previously known world.

Greater Create Crossroads (6) = 6 x 3 for 1 greater effect = 18 Energy

+30 Energy per +/- 1 Quantum your target world is at.

Scry New World: Detect a new world. By itself, a success will discover a RANDOM new world. For anything else, apply the normal rules for Divination AND add a lesser Sense effect for a subject within the particular world you are looking for. Matter for an object, Mind for a person, Chance for an event, etc... For example, if you wanted to filter your results to only worlds that had Magic to guarantee a return journey once the portal closes, add a Lesser Sense Magic effect. You must put in enough energy to cross the maximum number of Quantum it could potentially cross. Otherwise, it will automatically fail!

For same Quantum: Greater Sense Crossroads (2) + Greater Sense Chance (2) = 4 x 5 for 2 Greater Effects = 20 Energy

Add 50 Energy per +/- 1 Quantum you want to account for. This means detecting a new world 2 Quantum away would be 120(!!!) Energy. Obviously this means it will be MUCH easier to pinpoint a world if you can get somebody to take you there or you have some other connection to the world, especially for greater Quantum distances away.

Sense World of Origin: Discover the world a subject is from. Do not apply Quantum costs: The subject is right there, you're just finding out his hometown.

Greater Sense Crossroads (2) x 3 for 1 Greater effect = 6 Energy.


Do those seem reasonable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PK (Post 1950469)
Personally, I like to make traveling between quanta fairly hard. I'd charge +10 for travel between worlds in the same quantum, +20 for moving one quantum over, +40 for two, +80 for three, etc. But if the GM doesn't want quantum range to play as a big a role, a flat +10/quantum (minimum +10) is a viable option instead.

Hrm, that'd change some of my proposed costs a bit, but I guess it does depend on how fast and loose you'd want to play Crossworld travel. So with that, even staying on your Quantum level would still cost +10 if its not in your world's pocket multiverse (personal astral plane, personal heaven, personal hell, etc...)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodBeastX (Post 1950471)
This is unrelated to the question, but related to the topic. Some worlds have trouble with shifting, right? Like Banestorm?

With Banestorm, I don't think its that there's difficulty with travel, just more that spells having to do with Planar Travel are suppressed? After all, that's how one of the Infinity Patrol agents that got stranded there got back.

ericthered 11-06-2015 01:26 PM

Re: Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
I think a strict reading of RAW gives you +10 for changing worlds + 10/quantum. The +10 is 'per dimensional boundary'.

If I were setting up IW to work with RPM and trying to preserve the feel, you would either be limited to a single quantum jump, forbidden from crossing boundaries at all, have a steeper progression on changing worlds (10, 40, 90, 160,..; 10,20,40,80,...), or you add an additional greater effect each time you cross a quantum boundary. Quantum level is a big deal is IW, and default RPM makes changing worlds very easy.

Yrth has none of the standard spells for world travelling work. They're actually known, and research on working versions is a thing. Conveyors and those with the jumper advantage enjoy a -20 to all attempts to leave (though getting their is easy). The agent who got back did so is implied to have done so with the raft of worlds, a world-jumping artifact strong enough to overcome yrth's resistance. For RPM, I'd rule that there is a big greater create cross roads effect that spans the entire continent (the banestorm), and the rules on stacking spells means you have to overcome that spell before you can go anywhere. Demon summoning works because its a lesser effect.

Angle 11-06-2015 10:11 PM

Re: Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
PK's suggestion is fun because it gives you an excuse to make them stop at intermediate worlds, where you can have them get into trouble and otherwise have fun with them.

For bonus points, have different worlds have weird effects on RPM. Maybe add an extra +20% energy cost to all effects of X path, or other strange things like that. If the players end up on one of those effecting Path of crossroads, it could make their lives difficult...

Christopher R. Rice 11-07-2015 12:15 AM

Re: Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic232 (Post 1950473)
Create Nexus Portal: Create a gateway to a previously known world.

Greater Create Crossroads (6) = 6 x 3 for 1 greater effect = 18 Energy

+30 Energy per +/- 1 Quantum your target world is at.

Looks fine to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic232 (Post 1950473)
Scry New World: Detect a new world. By itself, a success will discover a RANDOM new world. For anything else, apply the normal rules for Divination AND add a lesser Sense effect for a subject within the particular world you are looking for. Matter for an object, Mind for a person, Chance for an event, etc... For example, if you wanted to filter your results to only worlds that had Magic to guarantee a return journey once the portal closes, add a Lesser Sense Magic effect. You must put in enough energy to cross the maximum number of Quantum it could potentially cross. Otherwise, it will automatically fail!

For same Quantum: Greater Sense Crossroads (2) + Greater Sense Chance (2) = 4 x 5 for 2 Greater Effects = 20 Energy

Add 50 Energy per +/- 1 Quantum you want to account for. This means detecting a new world 2 Quantum away would be 120(!!!) Energy. Obviously this means it will be MUCH easier to pinpoint a world if you can get somebody to take you there or you have some other connection to the world, especially for greater Quantum distances away.

Also seems fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic232 (Post 1950473)
Sense World of Origin: Discover the world a subject is from. Do not apply Quantum costs: The subject is right there, you're just finding out his hometown.

Greater Sense Crossroads (2) x 3 for 1 Greater effect = 6 Energy.

Ditto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic232 (Post 1950473)
Hrm, that'd change some of my proposed costs a bit, but I guess it does depend on how fast and loose you'd want to play Crossworld travel. So with that, even staying on your Quantum level would still cost +10 if its not in your world's pocket multiverse (personal astral plane, personal heaven, personal hell, etc...)?

It also jives with how Jumper works in GURPS Infinite Worlds. It becomes more difficult the higher in difference of the Q.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic232 (Post 1950473)
With Banestorm, I don't think its that there's difficulty with travel, just more that spells having to do with Planar Travel are suppressed? After all, that's how one of the Infinity Patrol agents that got stranded there got back.

It's more like getting out if I remember correctly.

sonic232 11-09-2015 04:57 AM

Re: Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer (Post 1950708)
It also jives with how Jumper works in GURPS Infinite Worlds. It becomes more difficult the higher in difference of the Q.

Yeah. Glad that I can do RPM rituals OK when it comes to that ^^; I'll probably use PK's increased costs per Q difference, with 0 for pocket-multiverse shifts within the same pocket-multiverse, +10 for same Q, +20 for a shift of 1 and a doubling for each level after that... Which would then be TRIPLED for a single Greater Create Crossroads effect.

+0
+30 - Same Q
+60 - Q +/- 1
+120 Q +/- 2
+240 Q +/- 3


This would make regular GURPS Magic's Plane Shift invaluable, if less versatile (them having to learn a new spell for each plane they know how to get to and all) unless their spells have the same sort of cost increases to their spells (which would make 'traditional' Cabalists much less capable of world hopping than their Nexus Portal and Astral Plane travelling compatriots).

Which leads into another question that I just came up with: Would MH's astral realm be the same as the Cabal's? Could somebody potentially stumble into a new world by accident while poking around too much in there?

robkelk 11-09-2015 05:47 AM

Re: Ritual Path Magic + Infinite Worlds: Cost for Planar Travel Across Quantum Levels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GodBeastX (Post 1950471)
This is unrelated to the question, but related to the topic. Some worlds have trouble with shifting, right? Like Banestorm?

For Banestorm, that's represented as a skill penalty on attempts to leave instead of an increased casting cost. (I believe GURPS Infinite Worlds said something like -20 to skill - IDHTBWM, but the number seems about right.)


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