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-   -   Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=158526)

phayman53 07-16-2018 10:31 AM

Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
I am wondering about a martial arts style appropriate for the Caithness knightly order the Knights of St. George of the Dragon. The reason I bring it up is that Martial Arts: Yrth Fighting Styles says that the Caithness knights favor Late Medieval Knightly Mounted Combat as apposed to the Megalan High Medieval Knightly Mounted Combat. This is because Caithness Chivalry demands dismounting to fight an opponent who is unhorsed or on foot. Megalan knights don't care.

That said, it seems to me that one of the jobs of the Knights of St. George of the Dragon is to defend Caithness against monstrous threats (hence, their founder was a dragon slayer x2 before being killed by a third!). Since a lot of monsters are strong enough to make even heavy armor somewhat unreliable as a primary defense, it would seem to me that the Late Medieval Knightly Mounted Combat Style, which uses two-handed weapons instead of a shield, would not be ideal.

So, what change might a knightly order still interested in Chivalry make to their combat style in order to still be effective against monstrous threats? Would they simply go back to High Medieval Knightly Mounted Combat? Would they add elements of say, Viking Spear Fighting? Train in crossbows to fight monsters who don't get the benefits of Chivalry because they are already vastly more powerful than individual humans?

Also, I have not done much human vs. powerful monsters in GURPS, so I am not quite sure from play experience what is effective. Insight from a game mechanical perspective would be helpful.

Thanks!

phayman53 07-16-2018 10:42 AM

Re: Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
One other thing, are there mechanics for using a shield, especially a large shield, as cover against a large area attack like a dragon's breath weapon? While not strictly realistic, shields could be made fire resistant and it certainly is a fantasy trope for knights vs. dragons.

Maybe a special dodge and drop, but using block instead?

jason taylor 07-16-2018 06:37 PM

Re: Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by phayman53 (Post 2192828)
I am wondering about a martial arts style appropriate for the Caithness knightly order the Knights of St. George of the Dragon. The reason I bring it up is that Martial Arts: Yrth Fighting Styles says that the Caithness knights favor Late Medieval Knightly Mounted Combat as apposed to the Megalan High Medieval Knightly Mounted Combat. This is because Caithness Chivalry demands dismounting to fight an opponent who is unhorsed or on foot. Megalan knights don't care.



Thanks!

Explain to me how Caithness wins when every pursuit is going to be automatically disrupted?

phayman53 07-16-2018 09:59 PM

Re: Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 2192994)
Explain to me how Caithness wins when every pursuit is going to be automatically disrupted?

The full code of chivalry doesn't usually apply to open warfare. It only does if both sides are chivalrous, but in that case it would be more of a battle of champions with even sides of knights fighting in a melee. The winner would take the field, etc. Obviously this would not apply against Megalos or orc raiders.

The normal place for this kind of chivalry to apply is single combat or small engagements between a few knights.

ericthered 07-16-2018 10:24 PM

Re: Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
Every time I've tried to build troops especially for killing monsters, they've come off as exceptionally unknightly.

For most large monsters, you want a great big pole arm for 1) keeping it at arm's reach and 2) doing enough damage to kill it quickly. Its also worth remembering that a shield doesn't do much good against something like a charging rhinoceros.

Trips and traps tend to be exceptionally useful against monsters, as they won't have the intelligence of a human foe. Pits, nets, and herding tactics (even if its the equivalent of waving a cap at a bull) stand out here, as do walls, fences, and other advantageous terrain.

Horses are useful for mobility rather than shock in most cases, allowing the slayers to keep pace with or outrun their foes.

Ironically, almost none of this is true with a dragon: its faster than the horse, breathes fire so you need the shield, and a pit trap is really hard to pull off against it.

AlexanderHowl 07-16-2018 10:26 PM

Re: Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
And they are strong enough to pick up boulders and drop them on their opponents from great heights.

tanksoldier 07-16-2018 11:04 PM

Re: Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 2192994)
Explain to me how Caithness wins when every pursuit is going to be automatically disrupted?

They're mostly talking about individual combat.

However, most medieval battles were set piece affairs. In modern terms they were force oriented, not terrain oriented.

Railstar 07-17-2018 03:01 AM

Re: Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
I think the difference between Late & High Knightly Mounted Combat isn't that significant for monster hunting. Generally there will be more focus on a skill like Lance (both for the high damage, knockback/stun, and for keeping the monster on the other end of the lance) rather than other weapons.

Crossbows were certainly worthwhile - like the lance, both for high damage and distance. I see keeping a few crossbows loaded as plausible.

Personally I can see Late Knightly Mounted Combat working fairly well against some monsters like trolls. A sword-Parry can hurt the monster in question, so it might be that their fighting style encourages those kinds of defences as a form of counterattack. A greatsword might actually be a popular weapon, if Reach 2 allows for long-weapon tactics, and the sw+3 damage can be used on a Parry (which the larger cutting surface might make more plausible than using a halberd or such). In that case, tricks to improve their Parry might make a lot of sense.

However, monstrous threats vary quite a bit, so the fighting style will need to depend on what they are fighting. It might help if you list a few 'typical' monsters you expect them to encounter as a guideline for the appropriate fighting style for them to use.

scc 07-17-2018 03:27 AM

Re: Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by phayman53 (Post 2193043)
The full code of chivalry doesn't usually apply to open warfare. It only does if both sides are chivalrous, but in that case it would be more of a battle of champions with even sides of knights fighting in a melee. The winner would take the field, etc. Obviously this would not apply against Megalos or orc raiders.

The normal place for this kind of chivalry to apply is single combat or small engagements between a few knights.

I'll go further and point out that dragons would either be considered non-sentient, and therefore code's of honor don't apply to them, or as they have 4 legs they are automatically considered mounted.

AlexanderHowl 07-17-2018 07:07 AM

Re: Martial Arts style for [Banestorm] Knights of St. George of the Dragon
 
I imagine that the majority of dragons that people will face will be hatchlings or young dragons (90% of dragons probably die as hatchlings and another 80% probably die as young dragons). Adolescent dragons have a century under their belt, meaning that they have probably developed their magical knowledge far beyond the majority of human mages, and have probably developed a number of useful magical abilities and mundane skills. Adult dragons are even worse, and I imagine that they end using very intelligent tactics against humanoid opponents.


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