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-   -   I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=173825)

David Johnston2 06-27-2021 10:46 PM

I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
it's Plato's Republic.

Saint 07-05-2021 02:50 AM

Re: I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
Does Bioware know?

The Colonel 07-05-2021 10:38 AM

Re: I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
As per the (possibly apocryphal) example ... what would the author know about what their work means? ;-)

ak_aramis 07-06-2021 01:17 AM

Re: I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Colonel (Post 2387106)
As per the (possibly apocryphal) example ... what would the author know about what their work means? ;-)

Any work of artistry has no less than 3 meanings:
  • What it means to the creator after it's done,
  • what it means to the partaker
  • what it was intended to mean when the creator made it.

And then...
  • The work as it is perceived by historians (looking for what it says of the time it was created during)
  • The common meanings of various subcultures. (Think how Tolkien's work has different meanings for gamers than for the general audiences)
  • The Meaning as perceived by format shifters (TV producers, Movie producers, translaters, recording artists, etc...)
  • The meaning as perceived by students and other coerced consumers.
  • For performance arts, the meaning it has to the performers

There are only two the Author really is authoritative upon - what it means to them now, and what it was intended to mean. Most of the honest ones admit that the original intent and the current meaning to themselves are often different.

Hell, what a movie or show meant to an actor on it during the run and after the run are often different... and may even change over time... (see Nimoy, I Am Not Spock and I Am Spock for an example of this)

The Colonel 07-07-2021 06:46 AM

Re: I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ak_aramis (Post 2387168)
Any work of artistry has no less than 3 meanings:

That's actually useful to have that explained - I had been under the impression that it was just a display of intellectual arrogance on the part of the critic to claim he knew better than the author.

There's probably some debate to be had about the relative values of the various meanings - and I think we're all aware that it's entirely possible to strap a meaning to something that has nothing to do with it - but I suspect we all have better things to do.

Still, would be interesting to know if Bioware know that the Way of the Qun is Plato's Republic.

David Johnston2 07-07-2021 10:32 AM

Re: I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Colonel (Post 2387259)
That's actually useful to have that explained - I had been under the impression that it was just a display of intellectual arrogance on the part of the critic to claim he knew better than the author.

There's probably some debate to be had about the relative values of the various meanings - and I think we're all aware that it's entirely possible to strap a meaning to something that has nothing to do with it - but I suspect we all have better things to do.

Still, would be interesting to know if Bioware know that the Way of the Qun is Plato's Republic.

It would be more interesting to know if Gaider knows that the Way of the Qun is Plato's Republic. Nobody at Bioware now was there when Dragon Age Origins was written. They're just the owners of the IP.

Saint 07-07-2021 01:19 PM

Re: I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
Wait, wait . . . convince us first - what you say makes some sense, was just hoping for a little more detail.
Thanks in advance.

David Johnston2 07-07-2021 04:59 PM

Re: I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint (Post 2387298)
Wait, wait . . . convince us first - what you say makes some sense, was just hoping for a little more detail.
Thanks in advance.

According to Plato, the world contains 3 types of people:

Producers – Craftsmen, farmers
Auxiliaries – Soldiers
Guardians – Rulers, the political class (Plato suggests that ideally these rulers would be philosophers, hence the well known expression "Philosopher kings)

The meritocratic ruling council of the Qunari has three leaders who are each the top ranking member of the three general divisions of labour in Qunari society.
The Arishok governs the soldiers,
The Arigena governs the craftsmen,
The Ariqun governs the priesthood.

The "priesthood" are so called because they teach the way of the Qun and monitor the Qunari for ideological deviation, not because they worship anything.

Plato describes society as a body which can be healthy or unhealthy but in many ways it's more like a machine with many moving parts. Each citizen is a component assigned by the philosophers to the role that they are most suited for. Defective components are to be discarded. The happiness of the individual guardian or philosopher is unimportant unless it is a happiness derived from filling the role they are most suited for in a just society. There is no marriage. Guardians and philosophers hold mates and children in common and women can be guardians and philosophers in a remarkably enlightened sentiment for a classical Greek.

The Qunari also regard society as a kind of machine and the individual as a component in it. The priesthood assigns everyone to the role they are deemed most suited to. Unlike the Republic, jobs are linked to gender. However in some cases they decide that a biological male is really a woman or vice versa. Also, they regard "defective" individuals as something to be "repaired" with the help of their bizarrely effective brainwashing techniques rather than discarded . Real happiness is the product of filling the role you are suited for. There is no marriage. The priesthoods arrange sexual contact and reproduction and raise the children in creches in order to educate and indoctrinate them in the way of the Qun.

Saint 07-07-2021 09:41 PM

Re: I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
Sadly my knowledge of the Dragon Age universe is limited to DAO. I know nothing of the ariqun or arigena, but I've listened to Sten's rap about the beresaad and the antaam a thousand times. But I think DJ2 is probably right.

I guess I owe Bioware an apology.




Nah.

Prince Charon 07-08-2021 05:50 AM

Re: I figured out what the Way of the Qun is from Dragon Age
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Colonel (Post 2387106)
As per the (possibly apocryphal) example ... what would the author know about what their work means? ;-)

IIRC, that was something a literary critic or literature professor actually said to Isaac Asimov once (mentioned in one of his non-fiction works, so probably true if my memory of it is accurate). Dr. Asimov did not agree.


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