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-   -   Large variance of SMs together (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=157406)

Maz 05-19-2018 06:58 PM

Re: Large variance of SMs together
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2176831)
Coins really could work seeing as how everything a giant could want or do would be of massive value and the reverse for tiny pixies.

The titans might very well be the poor workforce of the city. There is A LOT of jobs they simple can't do due to their size. And just to be able to eat, they need to spend way, way more than the more average sized races. In cities, space cost, especially in the center of the city. As others have pointed out, even a single bed would take up an enormous amount of city dwelling space.

So I think the titants would be mostly found in the outskirts of the city, maybe even outside the city proper. "There's plenty of room for them out there, it's for their best. For everyone best really". They wouldn't be able to afford new clothing very often either.

But they would still be indispensable for any large construction projects. Like a church or castle or city fortifications. And also for mining/harvesting and transporting building materials.


This could also be a plot-point. Some titants might feel they are not treated properly by the small folk. They do the most heavy jobs, and really the city couldn't grow as fast as it do without them.

---


On the other side you might have the faries who need very little in space and food. And who could easily afford new and fancy clothing and jewelry. And they might be able to do much of the same work as an average SM person (thanks to magic). So they might live very well, with more than enough food and large homes (relatively) and other luxuries.


... nothing builds plot faster than class difference, expect race-differences. And when you combine them; oh boy!

ericthered 05-19-2018 07:38 PM

Re: Large variance of SMs together
 
A giant may be scraping to get by, but he'll never be poor, at least not the poverty of an oppressed lower class. Small fractions of their living expenses can buy servants, agents, and so forth among the smaller folk. They also have the ability to wreck the city basically any time they feel like, so you can't treat them horribly. Their small numbers will allow them to coordinate well. They are few enough and prominent enough that individuals will be well-known among their neighbors. These are not the features of an oppressed and down-trodden class.

Now, I can totally see them dressing in rags and going to bed hungry, but they'll still be minor nobility, and while you can't afford to fill his belly, you can at least assuage his ego by using a respectful title. The guy could kill you in an instant if he wanted to, and he spends more money in a day than you make in a month.

I can still see high tensions about just how much they should or shouldn't be making though.

johndallman 05-20-2018 07:54 AM

Re: Large variance of SMs together
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maz (Post 2177333)
The titans might very well be the poor workforce of the city. There is A LOT of jobs they simple can't do due to their size. And just to be able to eat, they need to spend way, way more than the more average sized races.

They're enough of the mass of the inhabitants that having another titan arrive, or leave, may make a significant difference to the city's food supply. You'll need serious fortifications to keep toddler-age titans enclosed and thus prevent them from wrecking smaller races' dwellings. And rowdy teenager titans are a serious menace.

Maz 05-20-2018 08:12 AM

Re: Large variance of SMs together
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johndallman (Post 2177422)
And rowdy teenager titans are a serious menace.

Especially when they take to scateboarding through the city or take up parkour as the new thing ;D

dataweaver 05-21-2018 01:13 AM

Re: Large variance of SMs together
 
Coming in late; so some of this may already be covered. Overall, I see this city operating on a “rule of three” principle, as illustrated below:

Occasionally, stairs are needed. When they are, you could essentially set up “lanes”: one side uses step sizes appropriate for SM+3, with a lane next to it that fits three steps for every SM+3 step (making it suitable for SM+0) but is also about a third of the large lane's width, and a lane next time that with a three-to-one step ratio and a third of the width of that medium lane, making it suitable for SM -3 denizens. Intermediary sizes would be somewhat inconvenienced; but no one would ever have to lengthen or shorten their stride to less than ⅔ or more than 50% more than usual.

You might also have doors-within-doors, somewhat like the doggy door concept but with an actual door instead of a flap. Again, I'd go with thirds, as a +3 SM is approximately 3× the dimensions of +0 SM. I'd set the smaller door on the hinged side of the larger door so that each can be opened and closed independently; so if the hinges are on the right side, the smaller door would take up the right third and the bottom third of the larger door. Repeat this again and you can have one doorway that services everything from SM +3 to SM -3. Repeat it twice more (once on the larger size and once on the smaller size) and the doorway will be able to accommodate titans and fairies too. Again, intermediate sizes will suffer some inconvenience; but it should remain in a tolerable range.

In terms of jobs, fairies are likely to be able to find work doing craftwork that larger creatures would find intricate, such as precision clockwork. Such precision engineering could also account for a surprisingly high TL for the larger races, as it's in part what allows for mass production: if component parts come in essentially uniform sizes, then they're interchangable and a given worker can concentrate on creating one part over and over instead of having to build each device piece by piece.

Money would require another case of three-to-one scaling, with five general sizes of coins (suitable for SM +6, +3, +0, -3, and -6 respectively) and banks that are set up to handle currency exchanges — only instead of the different currencies being based on nationalities, they're based on these five “size classes”. Since three times the length, width, and height means roughly 30 times the volume and mass, that would be the exchange rate for neighbouring sizes: roughly thirty fairy coins would be worth one “thirdling”* coin, and roughly thirty of those coins would be worth one human coin, for a net 1000-to-1 ratio between fairy coins and human coins.

Technically, the linear ratio between SM +3 and SM +0 is approximately 3.16 to 1, not 3 to 1; but where linear measurements are the most important thing, such as doors and steps, a 3-to-1 ratio is close enough and allows for iterative designs such as the aforementioned stairs. Where area is most important, SM +3 scaling means ten times the area — though I can't think of any cases off the top of my head where area is the most important factor. Where mass or volume is the most important factor, I'd go with a 32-to-1 ratio, making the exchange rate between fairies and humans (or between humans and titans) 1024 to 1.

* (or whatever the SM -3 race is called)

kirbwarrior 05-23-2018 05:15 PM

Re: Large variance of SMs together
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maz (Post 2177333)
But they would still be indispensable for any large construction projects. Like a church or castle or city fortifications. And also for mining/harvesting and transporting building materials.

Honestly, any modern day job that requires large machinery I could easily see Titans doing; transportation (like buses but also moving of goods), construction, landscaping (such as beating down land for roads, tearing down cliffs, creating river ways, etc), farming, etc.
Quote:

Originally Posted by johndallman (Post 2177422)
They're enough of the mass of the inhabitants that having another titan arrive, or leave, may make a significant difference to the city's food supply. You'll need serious fortifications to keep toddler-age titans enclosed and thus prevent them from wrecking smaller races' dwellings. And rowdy teenager titans are a serious menace.

Titan ratios would definitely determine quite a few things. Food supplies might even be largely controlled by Titans, considering the the entire non-Titan populace would be 1/5 the food (or less).

That does make me wonder about children; I'm sure the buildings at least the Titans live in would have significant fortification, but bringing them into the city would definitely have to be done with care.
Quote:

Originally Posted by dataweaver (Post 2177621)
Coming in late; so some of this may already be covered. Overall, I see this city operating on a “rule of three” principle, as illustrated below:

In terms of jobs, fairies are likely to be able to find work doing craftwork that larger creatures would find intricate, such as precision clockwork. Such precision engineering could also account for a surprisingly high TL for the larger races, as it's in part what allows for mass production: if component parts come in essentially uniform sizes, then they're interchangable and a given worker can concentrate on creating one part over and over instead of having to build each device piece by piece.

Where area is most important, SM +3 scaling means ten times the area — though I can't think of any cases off the top of my head where area is the most important factor. Where mass or volume is the most important factor, I'd go with a 32-to-1 ratio, making the exchange rate between fairies and humans (or between humans and titans) 1024 to 1.

(cutting parts out to address these)

The rule of three actually works both nicely and simply. It even takes into account of half-races well. Overall I like the ideas

This makes me think of Minsh Cap, where the tiny folk work on detail work that humans might not be able to do or even really see. Faeries can probably do incredible fine work, especially if they had equivalent tools to help them out on their scale.

Area i'm not certain, but mass would matter with transportation, public baths, rest stops, anything where size but not necessarily height would come up.

How much of an impact on money does size affect? Would rent (or buying homes) be exponentially bigger for each SM up? Would food become an increasingly bigger amount of income? B265 talks about Cost of Living, B 516 talks about Monthly Pay, would it be possible to start there or would i have to completely approach things for different sizes anew?

Dustin 05-24-2018 08:53 AM

Re: Large variance of SMs together
 
Apologies if some of these were already covered...

For money, letters of credit would help reduce the problem of very large or small races needing to handle coins. A magical version could be worn as a piece of jewelry, and display the amount currently available in the bank/treasury. Transfers could be done by touching two "bank rings" together and willing an amount of money from your ring to the other person's.

The food problem for titans could be ameliorated by having them eat something other races don't, perhaps something fast-growing like bamboo, duckweed, or seaweed.

kirbwarrior 05-28-2018 11:58 PM

Re: Large variance of SMs together
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin (Post 2178009)
The food problem for titans could be ameliorated by having them eat something other races don't, perhaps something fast-growing like bamboo, duckweed, or seaweed.

Hmm, that's true, food that comes in great quantities that no one really wants could cheaply feed giants. Especially if it's on a scale like bamboo where it can grow vertically well.


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