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Old 10-15-2012, 09:49 AM   #1
omelette dabbler
 
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Default Jabberwock bad stuff

The Jabberwock has as its bad stuff two conditions:
"You must choose: go down to Level 1, or lose all your items."

Easy enough to see that it is a choice, but if I cannot satisfy one of the conditions does that mean that I should suffer the other?
Thatistosay, if I have no items (yes, such things happen all too frequently) am I forced to being reduced to level 1, or am I lucky (so to speak) that the bad stuff does not affect me as I have no items and choose the item option?

[I love this game. So dastardly.]
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:54 AM   #2
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Default Re: Jabberwock bad stuff

I'm gonna say that if you have no items, you could choose Option 2 and lose all 0 of your items; or if you're level 1 already, you certainly could choose Option 1 and have the Bad Stuff not do anything to you. This is not an official ruling of course, but I'm basing this answer on the logic of this post, which allows for choosing an outcome of a Curse that has no effect.

Last edited by Enzzo; 10-15-2012 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: Jabberwock bad stuff

I don't think that ruling applies here, since that's a fringe case that involves someone else deciding the effect. It has been stated elsewhere (and searching from my phone isn't easy, but I'm sure Clipper will be along shortly,) that when given a choice between two outcomes where one can't affect you, you must choose the one that will.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:45 AM   #4
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Default Re: Jabberwock bad stuff

You're right, that question was asked and answered already here. The answer came from Eben (MIB), and both Andrew and Erik commented later in the thread, but they did not specifically address that question. :)
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: Jabberwock bad stuff

With Bad Stuff, if you are given a choice between an option that affects you and an option that doesn't, you must choose the one that affects you. So in the Jabberwock case, you must choose to go down Levels if you have no Items; or lose all Items if you are Level 1.

Andrew's post about Curse! Kick Yourself In The Ass that Enzzo pointed out only applies to Curses. I still find that having it as an exception is a tad weird due to how it complicates Curse! Caaaaaaaanes! and Curse! Butterfingers; and for the confusion it can generate between which cards provide choices and which don't, but that's how I interpret the ruling at least.
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Last edited by Clipper; 10-15-2012 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Jabberwock bad stuff

Very interesting replies, and I greatly admire the expertise of respondents.
My feeling was that we choose whichever gives us the better outcome. It is Munchkin, after all. But I am glad to discover more about the game and other ways of thinking.

Does it temper the thinking if one considers the situation where neither condition can be met? Thatistosay, no items to lose and already at level 1. Of course the bad stuff will have no effect in this case. In the situation where either condition can be met, the case is also clear cut, it being a choice of the player.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:02 PM   #7
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Default Re: Jabberwock bad stuff

Think of it as the monster will be satisfied with doing either of its two effects to you. It's not going to allow you to choose the thing that doesn't hurt you in some manner. If you can't give it Items, it takes your Level and vice versa. Of course, if you have neither of its options, it will leave you alone.

According to the KYitA ruling, Curses with a choice are different, where you can choose the effect regardless of whether that choice affects you, so you can choose the most beneficial option.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jabberwock bad stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper View Post

According to the KYitA ruling, Curses with a choice are different, where you can choose the effect regardless of whether that choice affects you, so you can choose the most beneficial option.
I just want to point out again, I don't think the KYitA ruling applies to all Curses, but specific to that one because it stipulates another player choosing the outcome for you, and allows that player to be nice.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jabberwock bad stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bampop View Post
I just want to point out again, I don't think the KYitA ruling applies to all Curses, but specific to that one because it stipulates another player choosing the outcome for you, and allows that player to be nice.
I'm responding to this one in the other thread to hopefully not derail this one.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Jabberwock bad stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by omelette dabbler View Post
The Jabberwock has as its bad stuff two conditions:
"You must choose: go down to Level 1, or lose all your items."

Easy enough to see that it is a choice, but if I cannot satisfy one of the conditions does that mean that I should suffer the other?
Thatistosay, if I have no items (yes, such things happen all too frequently) am I forced to being reduced to level 1, or am I lucky (so to speak) that the bad stuff does not affect me as I have no items and choose the item option?

[I love this game. So dastardly.]
Bad Stuff is bad. If given a choice between an option you can fulfill, and one you can't, you must suffer the one you can fulfill. If you can't fulfill either, you're very lucky, and if you can fully or partially fulfill either one, then you're back to getting to choose which Bad Stuff to suffer. This is an official response.
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