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Old 08-19-2012, 01:54 PM   #1
Tiek00n
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Default When do combat modifiers get discarded? (Also, Doppelganger question)

I had an interesting situation come up while playing today that brought up the question of when exactly combat modifiers leave play and get discarded.

I was fighting at an effective level 23, against an effective level 22 monster. The monster was mated, and I used doppelganger to bring the fight to two 23's (me) v. two 22's (monsters). A wandering monster was added to the fight (level 4), and I wanted to use Wand of Dowsing to retrieve the doppelganger card from the discard pile to use again (WoD was in my "backpack" on the table). However, this brought up 2 questions:

The more general question is: when do combat modifier cards leave the table? If someone plays a monster modifier (Ancient, Baby, ...), a one-shot item (potion, balloons, ...) or other combat modifier (doppelganger, mate, ...) do the cards physically stay on the table to represent their involvement in combat, or do they get played from the hand and immediately go to the discard pile, and only leave their effect on the combat?

The second, more specific question, that arose is the use of doppelganger when doppelganger has already been used. The card states that it can only be used if the user is the only player in combat. Does the copy of me also count as a player? According to our interpretation of the rules, a player is defined as a human playing the game, so we decided that the doppelganger copy isn't a player, which would allow doppelganger to be used again (assuming it could be retrieved). Are there any official rulings on whether the doppelganger copy counts as "a player?"

I realize that people can have different interpretations, so I would greatly appreciate it if you are able to provide any official source for your answers to my questions. Thanks!
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:18 PM   #2
UncleBob
 
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Default Re: When do combat modifiers get discarded? (Also, Doppelganger question)

See my signature, but..

When we play, all cards that are part of the combat (on either side) stay "in play" until the combat is over. This allows us to go back and make any recounts that we need to. At the end of the combat, the player then discards all cards in whatever order they wish (and order can be important)

As for Doppleganger - I'd say if there were two cards in the deck, you could use them both (for a 3x total bonus), as no other player is in combat.
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #3
Clipper
 
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Default Re: When do combat modifiers get discarded? (Also, Doppelganger question)

The FAQ is specific that the cards are not discarded until the battle is over:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAQ
Q. When does a card move from play to discard? For example, if I use a one-shot Item during combat, is it in play during the entire combat or does it immediately move to the discards?
A. The one-shot card does not move to the discards until the battle is over. However, you no longer "own" that card, unless someone plays something to reboot the combat and return all cards to their owners, in which case you resume ownership.
So yeah, you can't use the same Doppleganger twice in the same combat. I can't think of any effect that would allow you to use the card twice in the same combat either, but if you were blending the deck with another set that had a card with the same effect as Doppleganger (such a card may not exist) or you did find a way to use the card twice in the same combat, then you would be able to use them together to quadruple your combat strength as your Doppleganger does not count as help.

Note: Do not use this post as fact. Double Dopplegangers are possible with a Fairy Dust card and they would triple your bonus, despite the card text saying otherwise. See posts below.
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Last edited by Clipper; 08-19-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:49 PM   #4
Vincentheartthrob
 
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Default Re: When do combat modifiers get discarded? (Also, Doppelganger question)

Second Chance Sparkles from Fairy Dust would allow you to use Doppleganger more than once. In fact I played a game where I got the winning level with some lucky sixes that pumped my combat strength above 200 :)
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:54 PM   #5
Tiek00n
 
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Default Re: When do combat modifiers get discarded? (Also, Doppelganger question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper View Post
The FAQ is specific that the cards are not discarded until the battle is over:


So yeah, you can't use the same Doppleganger twice in the same combat. I can't think of any effect that would allow you to use the card twice in the same combat either, but if you were blending the deck with another set that had a card with the same effect as Doppleganger (such a card may not exist) or you did find a way to use the card twice in the same combat, then you would be able to use them together to quadruple your combat strength as your Doppleganger does not count as help.
I had looked through the FAQ, but didn't see that post. Thanks for the clarification!
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:13 PM   #6
Clipper
 
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Default Re: When do combat modifiers get discarded? (Also, Doppelganger question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincentheartthrob View Post
Second Chance Sparkles from Fairy Dust would allow you to use Doppleganger more than once. In fact I played a game where I got the winning level with some lucky sixes that pumped my combat strength above 200 :)
Oh, indeed, missed that one (I had a vague memory that SCS may have been neutered a little to remove the benefit if it is returned to your hand, so didn't want to mention it until I confirmed whether that had happened or not). I'm also wrong in my understanding of calculating the combat strength of double Dopplegangers apparently. This thread deals with that exact situation and supports it tripling your strength, even though the card says otherwise. I guess it was missed when doing the FAQ updates mentioned.
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Last edited by Clipper; 08-19-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:27 PM   #7
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: When do combat modifiers get discarded? (Also, Doppelganger question)

We're getting out of 101 territory, folks. Please remember that threads in this forum ask for GENERAL and SIMPLE answers. If you start discussing weird exceptions, it's time to move your comments to the other forum.
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