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Old 08-06-2012, 08:24 PM   #1
BurnongWinter
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Default A weird situation

Now let me explain the situation we ran into in our last munchkin game. So someone was at 5 levels and equipment included, he kick down the door and he turn over a level 2 monster. The thing is, he was under a curse that made him change his sex so he had a -5 to his combat level. 5 - 5 = 0 but!!! It is said in the rules that you cannot go under 1. Now he is 1 against 2 and lose.

That's where things get tricky, he says that since he his a warrior, he can discard a card and add + 1 to his combat force. He then do it and says 2 vs 2 I kill the monster!

My question is: is he right? I mean that the penalty for changing sex is a -5 but since he was at 5, he dropped to 1 but then buffed himself by 1 to win the fight. Should the full penalty for the sex change still apply? He would still stand at 1 since 6 - 5 = 0.

Sorry for my english, not my native language. I tried to explain myself in as few words as I could :)
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: A weird situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnongWinter View Post
My question is: is he right? I mean that the penalty for changing sex is a -5 but since he was at 5, he dropped to 1 but then buffed himself by 1 to win the fight. Should the full penalty for the sex change still apply? He would still stand at 1 since 6 - 5 = 0.

Sorry for my english, not my native language. I tried to explain myself in as few words as I could :)
The rules make a distinction between your Level and your level (also called your combat strenght). The first one means the number showing in your counter. Your Level cannot go down for less than 1. But your combat strenght can go to 0 or less! A Level 1 player with a -5 penaly has a combat level of -4!

So, he isn't right in that, he would have a combat strenght of 0.

But, since he is a Warrior, he can use his Berseker ability and discard two cards to make his level go up to 2. Since this is a tie, he wins.

Note that after he does that other players may still play cards to buff the monster (or to lower his strenght even more).
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: A weird situation

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Originally Posted by bonetm View Post
(or to lower his strenght even more).
I was mistakenly under the impression that a monster's strength could not go below 1 but that a players could. So a monsters strength can be reduced to 0 or negative numbers but his level can't? Is there a way to even reduce a monster's level?
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: A weird situation

The same works for the monsters: the Level is the value printed in the card. The monster's combat strenght can go to zero or less. It's Level is not changed unless the card say so.

Yes, there are a few cards that say to change the Level of the monster, but in expansions, not on the basic Fantasy set.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:20 PM   #5
BurnongWinter
 
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Default Re: A weird situation

What if I used my friend way of thinking but with monsters now? Example taken out from my head:

I'm fighting against a level 4 monster and I'm a level 3 munchkin. I play the card baby (direct translation from french, hope it's the good name) which states: -5 to the monster level, minimum 1. My friend then plays a card, +3 to the monster's side and says the monster's now level 4 you lose.

Would he be right? Or the monster's level would still be loser than mine since 4 - 5 + 3 = 2( remember the lvl 1 minimum) and then beat it since I'm level 3.

Last edited by BurnongWinter; 08-06-2012 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Changing completly my post
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: A weird situation

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Originally Posted by BurnongWinter View Post
A player as a level and a combat strengh as I understand it but for a monster, his level and combat strengh are de same. Read every card and you will see on every monster enhancer: + or - to the monster level. The word monster's combat strengh is never used anywhere. So I think that everytime there is a +6 against dwarf for exemple, it is to the monster's level since the term monster's combat strengh doesn't exist.

Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong :)
You have an old printing of Munchkin. The new printings of those cards no longer include the "to Level" part. You and monsters now have a Level and a Combat Strength, and while Level cannot go below 1, Combat Strength can.

They changed the rules in 2010 so that virtually nothing changes the level of the munchkin or monsters (except a few cards like Typographical Error and Two-Headed). You have the choice of using the old rules or the new rules when using your old set, but to see that and the other changes made in 2010, take a look here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnongWinter View Post
What if I used my friend way of thinking but with monsters now? Example taken out from my head:

I'm fighting against a level 4 monster and I'm a level 3 munchkin. I play the card baby (direct translation from french, hope it's the good name) which states: -5 to the monster level, minimum 1. My friend then plays a card, +3 to the monster's side and says the monster's now level 4 you lose.

Would he be right? Or the monster's level would still be loser than mine since 4 - 5 + 3 = 2( remember the lvl 1 minimum) and then beat it since I'm level 3.
Seeing as you completely edited the post, I'll answer this one too. I can't say for the old rules, but with the new rules, it is a Level 4 monster with a combat strength of 2.
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Last edited by Clipper; 08-06-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: A weird situation

+ or - to Monster's Level would indicate an older printing of the set in question. As I have older sets of The Good, The Bad and The Munchkin and Munchkin Fu 2, I have some cards that read the old way.

If your cards say that, I'd recommend seeing if it's an older printing. The following quote is from the General Card Changes section of the Munchkin Change Log for the 2010 update found here.

"All Monster Enhancers have had "Level of" deleted from their modifier description. Negative Monster Enhancers no longer say "Minimum Level 1," either."
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:39 PM   #8
BurnongWinter
 
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Default Re: A weird situation

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Originally Posted by Bampop View Post
+ or - to Monster's Level would indicate an older printing of the set in question. As I have older sets of The Good, The Bad and The Munchkin and Munchkin Fu 2, I have some cards that read the old way.

If your cards say that, I'd recommend seeing if it's an older printing. The following quote is from the General Card Changes section of the Munchkin Change Log for the 2010 update found here.

"All Monster Enhancers have had "Level of" deleted from their modifier description. Negative Monster Enhancers no longer say "Minimum Level 1," either."
Oh... That would explain everything, it's weird because the guy's game was bought about 2 months ago.... Maybe we don't have access to the new printing here in Canada, the game's in french, that may be the cause.

And I'm a bit confused, does a level 4 monster with a combat strengh of 2 get smashed by a munchkin with a combat strengh of 3? XD
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:10 PM   #9
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: A weird situation

One thing that hasn't been addressed: when we changed the rules, we deleted the part that said monsters' combat strengths could not be less than 1.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: A weird situation

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Originally Posted by BurnongWinter View Post
And I'm a bit confused, does a level 4 monster with a combat strengh of 2 get smashed by a munchkin with a combat strengh of 3? XD
Yes. And I'll add some extra text to get past the character limit this way
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