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Old 07-11-2012, 08:03 PM   #1
Derago
 
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Default Tank (military-type) question

In high-tech, it lists the rate of turret rotation (for the Panzer 4 and Sherman), but what if you also want to rotate the hull do as to bring the canon around quicker? How fast can the tanks pivot in place?

I don't remember there being a way to calculate that even on 3e.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Tank (military-type) question

It's pretty damned fast .

I'd say at least the the length of the tank in yards times 3 {which is Pi in G.U.R.P.S. ;P} divided by twice the tanks' Accelleration {you're moving each track in opposite directions but the net result adds up} in seconds for a full 360 , but from what I've seen it could be even faster .

It was a common tactic for Tigers .
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Last edited by Mr Frost; 07-11-2012 at 08:26 PM. Reason: thought I saw Elvis .
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: Tank (military-type) question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Frost View Post
It's pretty damned fast .

I'd say at least the the length of the tank in yards times 3 {which is Pi in G.U.R.P.S. ;P} divided by twice the tanks' Accelleration {you're moving each track in opposite directions but the net result adds up} in seconds for a full 360 , but from what I've seen it could be even faster .

It was a common tactic for Tigers .
So working with a panzer 4:
Length = 19.25 ft / 3.3 = 5.8 USA
5.8 x 3.14 = 18.212
18.212 x 4 (Accel is 2) = 72.85... Degrees per second?
So basically one hex face per turn...

Looks good as far as being easily playable, but seems to quick for a WWII tank. Maybe use half accel since the same engine is still controlling both tracks?
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Tank (military-type) question

Not all tanks can pivot in place, depending on their steering mechanism. According to wikipedia, the Sherman didn't have that capability. Can't tell whether the Panzer IV did, though it's mentioned that the Panther could.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Tank (military-type) question

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Not all tanks can pivot in place, depending on their steering mechanism. According to wikipedia, the Sherman didn't have that capability. Can't tell whether the Panzer IV did, though it's mentioned that the Panther could.
Only the Panther had neutral steer if IIRC.

But from the Stug III with Witman and co they used to turn the tank and turret to get on target more quickly.

Also tank fighting was different in various countries. Germans used to fire one shot and move where as the Russians used a 3 shots and move. German Command tanks were easily targeted by anti tank hunters.

British had a baptism of fire with their tanks. Many were woefully underpowered or underguned. The Mathilda II was one of the toughest (not compared to a KV1) and the Churchill IV had great climbing abilities.

Eventually it came down to brutal production of the M4 Shermans and T-34s. There were good Panzer IVs but their later production was insane bigger fuel tanks over bigger ammo bins. Some training waned too, when Tigers would turn to leave an engagement rather than reverse out due to in experienced crews.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Tank (military-type) question

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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
But from the Stug III with Witman and co they used to turn the tank and turret to get on target more quickly.
Erm... I kinda doubt that, seeing as the Stug III doesn't have a turret :) It's got a casemate-mounted gun.

I imagine the turning of the tank to speed target acquisition is largely a side-effect of how you want to turn your tank to face any serious threat, anyway. The front armor is the thickets, and you usually want your heaviest armor toward the enemy.
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Tank (military-type) question

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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
Only the Panther had neutral steer if IIRC.
It's been a while since I read this, so it might have been the Panther, but I believe it was the Tiger that Hitler angrily demanded they go back and redesign it so it could pivot in place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post
The front armor is the thickets
I love it when a typo results in an real word.
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Tank (military-type) question

The panzer IV had turn radius of 5.92m while the tank was 7m long. This represents either neutral turning or clutch-brake turning. Not sure which or how exactly that info is to be interpreted.

I found this using http://www.onwar.com/tanks/germany/data/pz4j.htm
and http://www.gizmology.net/tracked.htm

Regardless of this, if I a GM determine that a given tank may pivot in place, I am seeking a way to determine its speed based on stats given in GURPS. I like the first given formula, though with accel not doubled or maybe even halved. It would be nice to take the hnd statistic into account if possible, too.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:31 AM   #9
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Default Re: Tank (military-type) question

For anyone who hasn't seen it the Tigerfibel is really interesting, especially when you compare the style to US WWII training pamphlets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigerfibel

(as usual the links at the bottom will take you to the actual texts. Edit: links may be very slightly Not Safe for Work)

Last edited by trans; 07-13-2012 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:34 AM   #10
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Default Re: Tank (military-type) question

This doesn't say anything about Panzer IVs or Shermans, but the following video shows a T-80 turning its hull 360 degrees in about 13 seconds. I don't know if they are using a normal frame rate, but I don't see why they would want to make it look any slower:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljs24S7uvws
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