Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2012, 05:29 PM   #31
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by munin View Post
It may be clear to you, but I remain unconvinced. Can you address the examples of Will 0 creatures I gave above?
The rules do not obviously forbid giving Will 0 to creatures, but there are no examples I can think of, so this may be a case of an unstated assumption.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 06:27 PM   #32
munin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vermont, USA
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I can not even find any examples of Will 0 creatures you gave "above"
A sapient computer program designed to have no willpower, or any sapient with Will temporarily reduced to 0 by an effect.
munin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 06:39 PM   #33
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by munin View Post
A sapient computer program designed to have no willpower, or any sapient with Will temporarily reduced to 0 by an effect.
The sapient computer programs in Ultratech and Transhuman space do have willpower and I'm unaware of any effects that temporarily reduce Will without IQ. Do sapient entities that have their IQs temporarily suppressed below 6 lose the power of speech?
David Johnston2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 07:07 PM   #34
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
The sapient computer programs in Ultratech and Transhuman space do have willpower and I'm unaware of any effects that temporarily reduce Will without IQ.
Weaken Will spell, or a custom Affliction.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 07:21 PM   #35
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by munin View Post
A sapient computer program designed to have no willpower
It is important to note, like DX, HT, and Per, Will 0 does not mean 'no will'. It means -10 on Will-based rolls compared to Will 10.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 07:59 PM   #36
Gurps Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Japan
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
It is important to note, like DX, HT, and Per, Will 0 does not mean 'no will'. It means -10 on Will-based rolls compared to Will 10.
Seconded. "Will 0" itself doesn't imply the character has no volition or free will. It's simply a score that happens to be smaller than Will 10 by 10. And this is why I like vierasmarius's idea. The "Attribute N/A" notation is the most useful when it is distinguishable from "Attribute 0".

It seems that a common misconception is to confuse the capitalized GURPS term "Will" with the everyday word "will". Actually, the Will score by definition of p. B16 is not related to what we call "will" in the real life. An IQ 10, Will 0 man is not lying in a vegetable state without free will; he's just another ordinary man with average intelligence and volition who unfortunately happens to have a low ability to some categories of threats (addiction, brainwashing, Mind-Reading spell, etc.).
__________________
Gurps Fan,
a rules lawyer from the mysterious country of ninja, samurai, and magical girls,
the inventor of M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N.
Gurps Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 08:05 PM   #37
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurps Fan View Post
Seconded. "Will 0" itself doesn't imply the character has no volition or free will. It's simply a score that happens to be smaller than Will 10 by 10. And this is why I like vierasmarius's idea. The "Attribute N/A" notation is the most useful when it is distinguishable from "Attribute 0".
I don't see anything useful that Will N/A would represent.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 08:16 PM   #38
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Weaken Will spell, or a custom Affliction.
But those things don't actually exist in the rules do they?
David Johnston2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 08:22 PM   #39
NineDaysDead
Banned
 
NineDaysDead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
But those things don't actually exist in the rules do they?
In what sense doesn't the Weaken Will spell (Magic page 136) exist? How does Affliction with the "disadvantage" modifier not exist?

Last edited by NineDaysDead; 06-12-2012 at 08:27 PM.
NineDaysDead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 08:32 PM   #40
Gurps Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Japan
Default Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I don't see anything useful that Will N/A would represent.
I agree that the "Will N/A" notation is not very meaningful by itself, but I find the distinction between "IQ 0" and "IQ N/A" clearly useful. "IQ 0" would mean that the character has a very low intellectual ability so that he'd need extra +10 bonus to get an effective skill of 10, while "IQ N/A" would mean that the character (object) performs no mental activity at all. "Will N/A" is just a consequence of having "IQ N/A".
__________________
Gurps Fan,
a rules lawyer from the mysterious country of ninja, samurai, and magical girls,
the inventor of M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N.
Gurps Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
attribute n/a, house rules

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.