06-10-2012, 06:17 PM | #1 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
In the [Psionic Powers] Do inanimate targets resist Malediction with HT or Will? thread, sp replied to one of my posts:
Quote:
Regarding the title topic: I personally find the idea of a 'N/A' level for attributes useful as an explanation for why Based On X attacks, where X is an Attribute that the target does not have a positive level of, cannot effect that target <for my purposes>. Allowing a +20% Enhancement to allow nearly guaranteed success against targets lacking the particular Att <at a positive level> strikes me as cheesy, so my ruling seems like a return to a better place, where the attacker needs to choose the targeted Att with care if he wants it to have broad effectiveness against a variety of target-types. |
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06-10-2012, 07:14 PM | #2 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
I think in some cases it is absolutely justified:
the DX of a rock. Or an ocean. Or even an AI that can't move by itself. Arguably, these are DX 0. but I just don't see the point of a -200 disadvantage for not being able to move. In almost all cases the lack of movement is summed up in sessile and No Fine manipulators. |
06-10-2012, 07:41 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
I'd say 'Attribute N/A' isn't a useful concept; or at least I'd find no use for it. I reward player cunning and player knowledge. Why would I want to penalize them for doing something smart like building a power like that and targeting things that are weak against it? I build powers like that. Why should I penalize my players for following my example?
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06-10-2012, 07:45 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
The real problem is that (Based on different attribute) is miscosted, because of the existence of an extremely broad category of targets that lack particular attributes. If you eliminate that enhancement, the existence of Will 0 targets isn't a problem because the abilities that default to targeting Will are all mind-affecting and therefore useless against objects (likewise, targeting DX for objects incapable of movement is problematic). Stat N/A is a convenient way of marking something as being an invalid target for (based on a different attribute). I might say something like:
'Based on a different attribute':
Last edited by Anthony; 06-10-2012 at 07:51 PM. |
06-10-2012, 07:47 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
I think the concept is useful but not uniformly applicable.
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06-10-2012, 08:00 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vermont, USA
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Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
"Attribute: N/A" may not be RAW, but obviously an example of "Secondary Characteristic: N/A" exists: FP.
Someone with Will 0 could still buy up Will-based skills or even attempt a Will roll (with some bonuses from something) for Extra Effort, etc. -- some-"one" with Will N/A simply could not. That's an important distinction and potentially worth representing, possibly even for attributes. |
06-10-2012, 10:22 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
Well no, they couldn't. Something with Will 0 doesn't do anything beyond tropisms, because it's a something, not a someone.
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06-10-2012, 10:33 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
Quote:
The bullet points themselves remind me of another idea I had brought up, about the game definition of lacking a characteristic. When Kromm said that certain attacks cannot affect targets without a mind, I wondered "What is a mind in game terms?". Is it something other than just having a zero in relevant Attributes like IQ, Will, and Per? |
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06-10-2012, 11:59 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vermont, USA
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Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
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The real point is that it's perfectly legal to have a character with attributes or secondary characteristics of zero (well, maybe not HP) who can still attempt things based on those scores, but someone with n/a can't, and that's a difference worth being able to represent. With DX 0 you can still attempt routine tasks (at +10) like grabbing a doorknob, but with DX n/a you can't. |
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06-11-2012, 12:13 AM | #10 | |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
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Re: Attribute N/A, Useful concept or not?
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Attribute N/A could also be used for characters who only possess a certain attribute by Possessing a body, such as some Ghosts or AIs. This avoids letting them take ST as a dump stat, for instance. |
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Tags |
attribute n/a, house rules |
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