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Old 03-31-2012, 02:36 AM   #1
Stripe
 
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Default [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

Greetings!

Very soon, I will run a one-shot dungeon in a large city in Colorado using only the Basic Set, Magic, and Dungeon Fantasy 1-3 (and 8 for treasure). Some other rules may creep into the mix, but those will be the core books used.

The players are encouraged to create characters prior to game day, but only DF1-3 can be used. The only character templates allowed are from DF 1. The disadvantage limit is the standard -50/-5 (DF 1, p. 50).

Also, I'll have a group of five pre-generated characters available, created with advice from my thread Which Four PC Templates? It looks like we'll have four players, but I'm making one extra just in case.

While I'm 16-year veteran GM of GURPS, I've never played or GM'ed Dungeon Fantasy, so I'll appreciate some help.

Normally, GM's favor PC's that are made with imagination rather than Munchkin-ism. However, for this, I want each of the PC's to be min-maxed to the hilt. This is a fantasy special forces/black-ops battle party. We're talking real mass-murdering burglar hobos here.

In addition to loads of perilous encounters against Construct, Mundane and Undead and maybe even some Animal and Demon-class enemies, the dungeon includes a number of puzzles and physical challenges that don't include combat.

Probably the best four- or five-player party combination would include two Knights, a Scout and a Thief, but that may not be the most fun for the players.

In the post below are the five pre-gen PC's: a Barbarian, Cleric, Knight, Scout, Thief and Wizard. Please critique them, but please limit suggestions to RAW DF 1-3. These are the first characters I've ever made using templates, let alone for DF, so I doubt they will be very well made. Hopefully, the collective will fix that!

Thanks so much for helping. I don't want to bomb this as that could have a negative impact on GURPS' reputation across a large population.
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:39 AM   #2
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Default Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

If someone would be so kind as to run these numbers through their character-making program, I would appreciate it!

Updated: Half-Ogre Barbarian!


Dwarf Knight
250 points

ST 15 [50]; DX 14 [80]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 14 [30]*.
Damage 1d+1/2d+1; BL 58 lbs.; HP 15 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 17 [0]*.
Basic Speed 6.00 [-15]; Basic Move 5 [0]*; Dodge 9†; Parry (Axe) ?†; Block 12†.

Advantages
Born War-Leader 2 [10]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Dwarf [20]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Pickaxe Penchant 3 [15]; Weapon Master (Axe) [20].

Disadvantages
(TBD) [-35]; Quirks [-5].

Skills
Armoury (Melee Weapons) (A) IQ+1 [4]-11; Axe/Mace (A) DX+2 [8]-20§; Brawling (E) DX+1 [2]-15; Carousing (E) HT [1]-14; Climbing (A) DX-1 [1]-13; Connoisseur (Weapons) (A) IQ+1 [4]-11; Fast-Draw (Axe) (E) DX+1 [1]-15†; Flail (H) DX+1 [8]-15; Intimidation (A) Will-1 [1]-9; Knife (E) DX [1]-14; Leadership (A) IQ+1 [1]-11‡; Shield (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Stealth (A) DX-1 [1]-13; Strategy (H) IQ+1 [2]-11‡; Tactics (H) IQ+1 [2]-11‡; Thrown Weapon (Axe/Mace) (E) DX+2 [4]-20§; Two-Handed Axe/Mace (A) DX+2 [8]-20§; Wrestling (A) DX [2]-14.

* Included in or modified by dwarf racial template.
† Includes +1 for Combat Reflexes.
‡ Includes +2 for Born War-Leader.
§ Includes +4 for Pickaxe Penchant.
Note: I swapped one of the Knight's three weapon choices for two-handed axe/mace, justified by Pickaxe Penchant stating all dwarfs are natural at fighting with them.

Equipment
(TBD)


Female Wood Elf Scout
250 points

ST 12 [30]*; DX 15 [80]*; IQ 11 [20]; HT 12 [20].
Damage 1d-2/1d+2; BL 29 lbs.; HP 12 [0]; Will 11 [0]; Per 14 [15]; FP 12 [0].
Basic Speed 7.00 [10]; Basic Move 8 [0]*; Dodge 11; Parry (Broadsword) 11; Block N/A.

Advantages
Wood Elf [20]; Heroic Archer [20]; Outdoorsman 2 [20]; Strongbow [1].

Disadvantages
(TBD) [-50]; Quirks [-5].

Skills
Acrobatics (H) DX [4]-15; Bow (A) DX+6 [16]-21‡; Broadsword (A) DX+3 [12]-18; Camouflage (E) IQ+6 [2]-17†‡; Cartography (A) IQ+1 [4]-12; Climbing (A) DX+1 [4]-16; Fast-Draw (Arrow) (E) DX+2 [1]-17‡; Gesture (E) IQ+1 [2]-12; Hiking (A) HT [2]-12; Jumping (E) DX [1]-15; Knife (E) DX [1]-15; Mimicry (Bird Calls) (H) IQ+1 [2]-12†; Navigation (Land) (A) IQ+1 [1]-12†; Observation (A) Per [2]-14; Riding (Horse) (A) DX-1 [1]-14; Search (A) Per-1 [1]-13; Shadowing (A) IQ+1 [4]-12; Stealth (A) DX+1 [1]-16‡; Survival (Woodlands) (A) Per+3 [1]-17†‡; Swimming (E) HT [1]-12; Tracking (A) Per+2 [2]-16†; Traps (A) IQ+1 [4]-12.

* Included in or modified by wood elf racial template.
† Includes +2 for Outdoorsman.
‡ Includes +2 for Forest Guardian.

Equipment
(TBD)


Half-Ogre Barbarian
250 points

ST 21 (Size†, -10%) [63]*; DX 13 [60]; IQ 9 [0]*; HT 14 [30]*.
Damage 2d/4d-1; BL 88 lbs.; HP 26 (Size†, -10%) [9]; Will 9 [0]; Per 11 [10]; FP 14 [0].
Basic Speed 6.00 [-10]; Basic Move 7† [0]; Dodge ?‡; Parry ?‡; Block ?‡.

Advantages
Combat Reflexes [15]; Half-Ogre [16]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Outdoorsman 2 [20]; Weapon Master (Two-Handed Sword) [20].

Disadvantages
Gigantism [0]; (TBD) [-40]; Quirks [-5]. (1 quirk used)

Skills (48)
Animal Handling (Horse) (A) IQ [2]-9; Brawling (E) DX [1]-13; Camouflage (E) IQ+2 [1]-11§; Climbing (A) DX-1 [1]-12; Disguise (Animals) (A) IQ [2]-9; First Aid (E) IQ [1]-9; Fishing (E) Per+3 [1]-13§; Forced Entry (E) DX [1]-13; Hiking (A) HT-1 [1]-12; Intimidation (A) Will [2]-9; Mimicry (Animal Sounds) (H) IQ [1]-9§; Naturalist (H) IQ [1]-9§; Navigation (Land) (A) IQ+2 [2]-11§; Observation (A) Per-1 [1]-10; Running (A) HT-1 [1]-12; Stealth (A) DX [2]-13; Survival (Woodlands) (A) Per+1 [1]-12§; Swimming (E) HT [1]-14; Thrown Weapon (Axe/Mace) (E) DX+2 [4]-15; Tracking (A) Per+1 [1]-12§; Two-Handed Sword (A) DX+4 [16]-17; Weather Sense (A) IQ [2]-9; Wrestling (A) DX [2]-13.

* Included in or modified by half-ogre racial template.
† Includes effects of SM +1 from Gigantism.
‡ Includes +1 for Combat Reflexes.
§ Includes +2 for Outdoorsman.
NOTE: I traded 20 points from Outdoorsman for Weapon Master.

Equipment
(TBD)


Human Cleric
250 points

ST 12 [20]; DX 12 [40]; IQ 14 [80]; HT 12 [20].
Damage 1d-1/1d+2; BL 29 lbs.; HP 12 [0]; Will 14 [0]; Per 14 [0]; FP 12 [0].
Basic Speed 6.00 [0]; Basic Move 6 [0]; Dodge ?‡; Parry ?‡; Block ?‡.

Advantages
Clerical Investment [5]; Power Investiture 3 [30];

• 25 points in Holy abilities (p. 22); put leftovers into
spells.

• A further 20 points chosen from among additional
Holy abilities or ST +1 or +2 [10 or 20], DX +1 [20], IQ +1
[20], HT +1 or +2 [10 or 20], Will +1 to +4 [5/level], FP +1 to
+6 [3/level], Fearlessness [2/level] or Unfazeable [15], Healer
1 or 2 [10 or 20], Languages (any) [2-6/language], Luck [15],
Mind Shield [4/level], Power Investiture 4 or 5 [10 or 20],
Resistant to Disease (+3) or (+8) [3 or 5], or Signature Gear
[Varies].

Disadvantages
(TBD) [-]; Quirks [-5].

Skills (48)

* Included in or modified by ? racial template.
† Includes +? for .
‡ Includes +? for .
§ Includes +? for .

Equipment
(TBD)

Last edited by Stripe; 04-07-2012 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

Reserved...
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post

A sword-and-board Knight would probably be a lot more effective than the greatsword swinger, but it looks like with Striking Strength 21, he's doing 4d-1 swing damage, +3 for the greatsword, and +8 for Weapon Master. That's an incredible 4d+10 (or 6d+3 if modifying dice + adds, B269) cutting damage... Ouch.
Yes, but going to a broadsword only loses 2 points of damage, so still 6d+1, and get much improved defenses with a shield.
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:13 AM   #5
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Default Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

Quote:
Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
and get much improved defenses with a shield.
Not as a Berserker he doesn't.
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
A sword-and-board Knight would probably be a lot more effective than the greatsword swinger, but it looks like with Striking Strength 21, he's doing 4d-1 swing damage, +3 for the greatsword, and +8 for Weapon Master. That's an incredible 4d+10 (or 6d+3 if modifying dice + adds, B269) cutting damage... Ouch.
I do think I should point out that the difference between Broadsword and Greatsword is +2 damage, an increase of only 10% for a character that strong. The difference is more noticeable against heavy armor, but either sword can casually penetrate the best possible mundane armor, and likely most enchanted suits as well. The Greatsword will have the advantage of Reach, but that's basically it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Not as a Berserker he doesn't.
Berserk doesn't kick in until he's already wounded (unless modified), and can be resisted as well. He already has High Pain Threshold, which makes much of the advantage of going Berserk redundant.

Last edited by vierasmarius; 03-31-2012 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

I didn't notice that I'm allowed to drop the shield skill RAW until too sleepy to change. I'll do that and up 2HS by a level tomorrow.

Like I say, I get y'all on shield+sword > 2H Sword. But there's considerable benefits above HPT to Berserk and a shield drops in value since he'll be making AoA's.

Berserk + HT 14 = unstoppable killing machine.

Stripe out.
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Old 03-31-2012, 06:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

He's got Bad Temper, which means he has a chance of going Berserk just because someone told him he was ugly. Which he is.

And all the HT and HP in the world don't help after someone has taken advantage of your lack of defenses to stab out your eyes.

For comparison, here's a half-ogre knight with Gigantism I put together for my game. I've only seen him fight in one or two combats, but he's pretty boss:

Big Al Half Ogre Knight (250 points)

ST 22* [72]; DX 14 [80]; IQ 9† [0]; HT 14‡ [30].
Damage 2d/4d; BL 97*lb; HP 23 [2]; Will 10 [5]; Per 9 [0]; FP 14 [0].
Basic Speed 7.00 [0]; Basic Move 8§ [0]; Dodge 11¶.
(SM +1§).

Social Background
TL: 3 [0].

Templates and Meta-Traits
Half-Ogre (Dungeon Fantasy; p.*DF3:15) [16]; Knight (Dungeon Fantasy; p.*DF1:8) [0].

Advantages
Born War-Leader 2 [10]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Fit [5]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Trading Character Points for Money $2,500 [5].

Disadvantages
Compulsive Generosity (12 or less) [-5]; Gigantism [0]; Greed (12 or less) [-15]; Gullibility (15 or less) [-5]; Odious Personal Habit (Continuous singing) [-5]; Sense of Duty (Adventuring companions) [-5]; Wealth (Poor) [-15].
Quirks: _Unused Quirk 4; Delusion: Thinks his singing is magical; Dislikes bullies; Makes floral arrangements; Prefers to avoid violence. [-5]

Skills
Armoury/TL3 (Melee Weapons) (A) IQ+1 [4]-10; Brawling (E) DX+1 [2]-15; Climbing (A) DX-1 [1]-13; Connoisseur (Weapons) (A) IQ+1 [4]-10; Crossbow (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Fast-Draw (Knife) (E) DX+1 [1]-15¶; Flail (H) DX+5 [24]-19; Hiking (A) HT-1 [1]-13; Intimidation (A) Will-1 [1]-9; Knife (E) DX [1]-14; Leadership (A) IQ+1 [1]-10**; Shield (Shield) (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Stealth (A) DX-1 [1]-13; Strategy (Land) (H) IQ+1 [2]-10**; Tactics (H) IQ+1 [2]-10**; Wrestling (A) DX [2]-14.

**Includes +4 from 'Racial ST Bonus'.
†*Includes -1 from 'Half-Ogre (Dungeon Fantasy)'.
‡*Includes +1 from 'Half-Ogre (Dungeon Fantasy)'; Conditional +1 from 'Fit'.
§*Includes +1 from 'Gigantism'.
¶*Includes +1 from 'Combat Reflexes'.
***Includes +2 from 'Born War-Leader'.

Equipment
1× Backpack, Small ($60; 3*lb); 1× Barrel Helm (Lightened Oversized; $480; 15*lb); 1× Boots (Lightened Oversized; $160; 4.5*lb); 1× Crossbow (ST 25; Oversized; $225; 9*lb); 8× Crossbow Bolt (Oversized; $24; 11.52*oz); 1× Heavy Leather Leggings (Lightened Oversized; $120; 6*lb); 1× Mail Sleeves (Lightened Oversized; $140; 13.5*lb); 1× Medium Shield (Oversized; $90; 22.5*lb); 1× Morningstar (Oversized; $120; 9*lb); 1× Personal Basics (Oversized; $7.5; 1.5*lb); 1× Pouch ($17.5; 1.5*lb); 1× Scale Armor (Lightened Oversized; $840; 52.5*lb); 1× Shoulder Quiver (Oversized; $44; 1.72*lb).

Encumbrance
None: Basic Lift 97*lb. Ground Move 8*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 11.
[Light]: Basic Lift 194*lb. Ground Move 6*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 10.
Medium: Basic Lift 291*lb. Ground Move 4*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 9.
Heavy: Basic Lift 582*lb. Ground Move 3*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 8.
X-Heavy: Basic Lift 970*lb. Ground Move 1*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 7.

Defenses

Parry: 13 (Flail). Block: 12 (Shield (Shield)). Dodge: 10/11.Eyes: DR 0+1; DB 0+2; HP 3. Neck: DR 0+1; DB 0+2. Skull: DR 8+1; DB 0+2. Face: DR 6+1; DB 0+2. Torso: DR 4+1; DB 0+2. Groin: DR 4+1; DB 0+2. Arms: DR 4/2*+1; DB 0+2; HP 12. Hands: DR 0+1; DB 0+2; HP 8. Legs: DR 2+1; DB 0+2; HP 12. Feet: DR 2*+1; DB 0+2; HP 8.

Melee Attacks
Brawling * Punch (15): 2d-1 cr. Reach C,1.
Brawling * Bite (15): 2d-1 cr. Reach C,1.
Brawling * Kick (13): 2d cr. Reach C,1.
Medium Shield * Bash (16): 2d+1 cr. Reach 1.
Medium Shield * Rush (16): slam+2+1 cr. Reach 1.
Morningstar (19): 4d+4 cr. Reach 1.

Ranged Attacks
Crossbow ST 25 (16): 2d+7 imp. Acc 4. Range 500*yd / 625*yd. RoF 1. Shots 1(4).

Last edited by mlangsdorf; 03-13-2013 at 02:57 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

Hm. If a 2 handed weapon isn't the most effective for a guy like this, under what circumstances would you have a DF PC wielding a 2 handed weapon?

(Assuming, as per the OP, that we are being munchkins about this)
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:38 AM   #10
Peter V. Dell'Orto
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Default Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos

I'd ditch Berserk. It's a death sentence if he's not massively armored (and with SM+1 that'll be expensive and heavy) and easy to heal (SM+1 doubles the cost to heal him).

I'd also, since he's a one-weapon weapon master, focus more on his sword. My player Mike made his Weapon Master (Greatsword) knight up with option 1 (for Two-Handed Sword-20) and followed the note on Shield that let him ditch it for another +1 to Two-Handed Sword. He got ST 17, as well, so he had Two-Handed Sword-21, does 3d+8 cut or 1d+7 impale with his greatsword (he trading his quirk points for cash to get a good sword and some plate), has a Parry of 14 to start (and multiple parries at -2 with Basic Set, -1 if you use Martial Arts's rules which we do). Even a Swashbuckler can't start with as high of a weapon skill unless he spends Quirk points on it.

(Just as an aside, he also took HP 20 to start for the doubling of healing effects, so he's extremely easy to keep in fighting trim.)

I don't see all that much point in learning multiple weapon skills when they aren't covered by Weapon Master. Even as backup, it's more useful to just carry more of your main weapon (took Weapon Master Greatsword? Get a wooden one made, or carry a spare cheap one at 40% cost, and lanyard the main one on you).
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