How "dark" or "Light" is the (your?) 3rd IMPERIUM??

Qoltar · 10-05-2005, 02:31 AM

Hi! I was wondering how do most folks prtray the "Third Imperium"? Are they Bureacratic and too engriossed in paperwork and politics of nobility to interfere in the average Interstellar Citizen's life?? OR are they an omnipresent annoying "EVIL" Imperium...and highly corrupt?? OR the only force for "good" , ancient apple pie, Motherhood and a Chevy air/raft in everyone's hovering garage??

Just for thoughts on any of those variations. And for that matter just how "Decadent" and corrupt have other Gms portrayed the Nobles??

- E.W. Charlton

Hans Rancke-Madsen · 10-05-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qoltar

Hi! I was wondering how do most folks prtray the "Third Imperium"? Are they Bureacratic and too engriossed in paperwork and politics of nobility to interfere in the average Interstellar Citizen's life?? OR are they an omnipresent annoying "EVIL" Imperium...and highly corrupt?? OR the only force for "good" , ancient apple pie, Motherhood and a Chevy air/raft in everyone's hovering garage??

All of the above. Well, perhaps not all, but I see the Imperium as 300 different duchies, all run according to certain very broad guidelines, but with plenty of room for variation. In some duchies the duke runs things as an autocracy using the subordinate nobles as subordinate officers. Other duchies have powerful counts running rings around weak dukes. Some duchies even have varying degrees of democratic elements in the form of senates with varying degrees of influence on the duke. There may even be some 'constitutional dukedoms' where the people (or at least the worlds) run things for the duke. As for the degree of interference with the member worlds and the degree of corruption, that too varies from duchy to duchy.

The Imperium itself occasionally interfere with the running of a duchy, imposing the very broad guidelines I mentioned above and from time to time acting as 'umpire' in the political game between the Duchy administration and the member worlds, but mostly it leaves the duchies alone and concentrates on coordinating defense and foreign policy at the highest level.

In short, if you want to run a campaign with an Evil Imperium, select a hitherto nondescript duchy and run it there, and if you want a benevolent Imperium, select another duchy and run it there.

In the case of the Duchy of Regina, I believe that the Aledons have been, on the whole, enlightened rulers who have tried to keep a tight rein on their counts and let the member worlds have considerable influence on Duchy affairs. There's a senate in which all the duchy's Imperial nobles have seats, but in addition each member world has a number of senators depending on the size of its population. Exactly how much influence the senate has I haven't pinned down, but its not without significance.

Hans

daryen · 10-05-2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen

In the case of the Duchy of Regina, I believe that the Aledons have been, on the whole, enlightened rulers who have tried to keep a tight rein on their counts and let the member worlds have considerable influence on Duchy affairs. There's a senate in which all the duchy's Imperial nobles have seats, but in addition each member world has a number of senators depending on the size of its population. Exactly how much influence the senate has I haven't pinned down, but its not without significance.

Whereas the Duchy of Mora is going to be much more autocratic, with no input outside subordinate nobles. Not a true "evil duchy", but neither is it "enlightened" in any way. (At least that is how I see the Duchess of Mora portrayed.)

kafka · 10-05-2005, 07:46 PM

I have always tended toward showing the Imperium in Dark or Gray fashion in counterpoint to the optimistic vision that most CT/GT(?) players seem to have. As I really cut my teeth on MT and this has influenced my perception when I do engage in "time travelling".

Furthermore, it does not mean that I would paint all of Chartered Space with the same brush, I paint a very cheerful and optimistic view of the Zhodani Consulate based upon my own experiences and that of many others from the former Eastern bloc. Weaving together some of canon, it presents a more cheerful look at others gray & dark spaces. I am also a big fan of the Hive Federation.

Anthony · 10-06-2005, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qoltar

Hi! I was wondering how do most folks prtray the "Third Imperium"? Are they Bureacratic and too engriossed in paperwork and politics of nobility to interfere in the average Interstellar Citizen's life?? OR are they an omnipresent annoying "EVIL" Imperium...and highly corrupt??

IMTU the Imperium is a weak government, which does very little, but is also very corrupt. Most of the 'evil' is done by individuals and corporations -- the Imperium just lacks the ability and/or the will to prevent such abuses of power.

Mark Caliber · 10-06-2005, 09:18 AM

Yeah, what Bill said, but I'd color my Imperium a lovely shade of Ivory with a hint of Puce.

Voidstar · 10-09-2005, 06:33 PM

Greetings everyone, This is my 1st post, so please bear with me...

I started playing classic traveller about 1979 with some friends in high school.

At that time, mature role playing was'nt exactly on our minds, science fiction was however a uniting theme of friendship and a continuing interest to us all. One of the earliest house rules was that the 3rd Imperium was large enough to accomodate most every form of science fiction present at that time.

We included books, movies and television but stuck with a common vision that some author's visions were simply a little too far off from traveller "canon" to be enjoyable within the rules, reasonable for the group or well liked enough for inclusion In My Traveller Universe...

Thus we ended up with 3 or 4 referee's with different viewpoints and slightly different takes on how the universe and the Imperium existed. We each took our turns and enjoyed many years of solid fun and enjoyment out of the game.

As time passed the newer versions of the material came out and were added in and included with the original material.

The shift in how "Dark" or "Light" is your 3rd Imperium came with different referee's games and interests. The area we used for our campaigns was the foreven sector of course and like most players there ensued a time of sector and subsector mapping to "fill in the blanks".

There were parasitic pirate campaigns, empire building, technological build up, ancient adventures and a slow maturing of the ways and types of campaigns.

Eventually the group changed and matured, others joined in an brought in their viewpoints and ideas. The game became more refined and even started to include real life elements from science, technology, movies and even military examples.

But light and darkness came from the style and form of play created by the referees. The rebellion and the empire theme was pretty engraned after watching star wars, but the arguement that it was'nt canon was also a compelling arguement. Eventually the fact that it was'nt canon was'nt an issue, it was simply a plot device for the storyline.

Players became aware that the Imperium was'nt always the shining becon of freedom. That the Zhodani were'nt necessarily the evil thought controlling empire they were thought to be, and stranger still was the realization that even mighty Aslan warriors had reason to fear crossing the deep rift when they held information about things that men or aslans were not ment to know...

Still other areas of the Imperium were explored, the Capital was a place of strength and power and in the Core adventures tended to be short unless one was exceedingly careful, lucky or skilled. The light of the Capital also cast long shadows that hide monsters both human and inhuman. But then every once in a while bold Vilani, angry Vargr and impetuous Imperials can and do make enough of a difference to be noticed...

Oddly, it was discovered that Traveller canon provided many adventure ideas that were not as they appeared to be. That some of those rebels were not just decendants of losing factions thur the history of the Imperium, but that some of those losers were in fact still around. And still part of the problems in the system...

Still, I find that there are concrete benefits to being a Citizen of the Imperium, If one can rise above the bonds of the local planetary government enough to get off planet. It just depends on the citizens will, luck and skills...

Those benefits include rights to travel, commerce and the freedom to seek each individuals own path to happiness, sucess and the responsibilities of duty, honor and self discipline. There's the satisfaction of a Shipsmaster or Captain, the business owner and merchant, as well as that of the soldier, the scientist and the outlaw. These benefits don't just come from the individual's work but from the institutions they serve. All of which are at the pleasure or displeasure of the Emperor and his nobles.

Some of which included NOT having to stand when the Emperor enters the room, the consent of the nobility at court, and the formal challenge of the duel... Besides no one wants to just roleplay several years of time on the prison planet.

The light and the dark both have a place in the 3rd Imperium, but only the Referee knows just how strong or weak each side may be...

Voidstar

ross_winn · 10-09-2005, 06:49 PM

The Imperium is in much decline in my universe. Other than a few very charismatic leaders and a pretty astonishing hold on miltary force they just don't have much going for them. It takes as much as a decade for the Imperium to wake up and deal with things, then they just slip back into torpor.

Qoltar · 10-09-2005, 07:44 PM

hhmm..inyeresting - maybe the reason I asked is that I kind of "Skipped" all that Rebellion/nasty birus/new era stuff. When that was going on I had shifted to STAR TREK:The RPG by FASA...then various GURPS campains over the years - so when SJGAmes got the TRAVELLER License - it was like "coming Home" for me.

So both originally and currently I've always known a 2rd IMPERIUM universe that has Strephon as Emperor - but in the old days I ran my "own" universe not the compant one. My groups back then were runing around about 47 parsecs from Earth in the 29th centuryt. I had used the World and subsector generation rules - to create my own "Verse" Although I did use the SOLOMANI RIM book for known Star placement - figuring the GDW guys had done the home work.

To be honest I was never interested in running anything close to the "canon" universe - until GURPS:TRAVELLER came out. I was actually surprised to find my notes from an old session or 2 that I had run in the Trin's Veil area.... from like the early 1980s. (!!)

So, I won't go into TOO much detail .....(since one of my players is now on these forums and might want to be surprised a little from time to time) BUT I've sort of decided that there some VERY DARK in the soul members of the nobility within the 3rd Imperium in my 'Verse...but there are also a few Good Good hearts amonst the Bureacracy and nobility. Its just not always going to be predictable just "WHO" you can get an even break from ....

Still love to hear more thoughts on this everyone.

- E.W. Charlton

Voidstar · 10-09-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qoltar

To be honest I was never interested in running anything close to the "canon" universe - until GURPS:TRAVELLER came out. I was actually surprised to find my notes from an old session or 2 that I had run in the Trin's Veil area.... from like the early 1980s. (!!)

Agreed, I should state that while we followed canon we all so had a tendency to STRAY from the history. I personally was not that thrilled or impressed with the Vilani and my group tended to agree with that sentiment. The Vargr were fun but the pack mentality was sometimes hard to deal with.

Roleplaying with several referee's and often strong and distinct personalities tended to allow people to explore different roles and ideas that they might not have tryed before.

Somewhat distressing also was the early GDW mind set that adventures should be merchant or scout style adventures. This was'nt very satisfying and was often set aside for more military and intelligence style campaigns.

One of my most enjoyable and satisfying was a Cadet campaign that slowly raised the specter of war and the skill levels of the players as they advanced in terms. All simply based on the scene from Hunt for Red October and a Issue of Challenge magazine. That adventure took us in all sorts of directions.

10-05-2005, 02:31 AM	#1
Qoltar Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio U.S.A.	How "dark" or "Light" is the (your?) 3rd IMPERIUM?? Hi! I was wondering how do most folks prtray the "Third Imperium"? Are they Bureacratic and too engriossed in paperwork and politics of nobility to interfere in the average Interstellar Citizen's life?? OR are they an omnipresent annoying "EVIL" Imperium...and highly corrupt?? OR the only force for "good" , ancient apple pie, Motherhood and a Chevy air/raft in everyone's hovering garage?? Just for thoughts on any of those variations. And for that matter just how "Decadent" and corrupt have other Gms portrayed the Nobles?? - E.W. Charlton

10-05-2005, 07:46 PM	#4
kafka Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: How "dark" or "Light" is the (your?) 3rd IMPERIUM?? I have always tended toward showing the Imperium in Dark or Gray fashion in counterpoint to the optimistic vision that most CT/GT(?) players seem to have. As I really cut my teeth on MT and this has influenced my perception when I do engage in "time travelling". Furthermore, it does not mean that I would paint all of Chartered Space with the same brush, I paint a very cheerful and optimistic view of the Zhodani Consulate based upon my own experiences and that of many others from the former Eastern bloc. Weaving together some of canon, it presents a more cheerful look at others gray & dark spaces. I am also a big fan of the Hive Federation.

10-06-2005, 09:18 AM	#6
Mark Caliber Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Central Florida	Re: How "dark" or "Light" is the (your?) 3rd IMPERIUM?? Yeah, what Bill said, but I'd color my Imperium a lovely shade of Ivory with a hint of Puce.

10-09-2005, 06:33 PM	#7
Voidstar Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Meltdown	Re: How "dark" or "Light" is the (your?) 3rd IMPERIUM?? Greetings everyone, This is my 1st post, so please bear with me... I started playing classic traveller about 1979 with some friends in high school. At that time, mature role playing was'nt exactly on our minds, science fiction was however a uniting theme of friendship and a continuing interest to us all. One of the earliest house rules was that the 3rd Imperium was large enough to accomodate most every form of science fiction present at that time. We included books, movies and television but stuck with a common vision that some author's visions were simply a little too far off from traveller "canon" to be enjoyable within the rules, reasonable for the group or well liked enough for inclusion In My Traveller Universe... Thus we ended up with 3 or 4 referee's with different viewpoints and slightly different takes on how the universe and the Imperium existed. We each took our turns and enjoyed many years of solid fun and enjoyment out of the game. As time passed the newer versions of the material came out and were added in and included with the original material. The shift in how "Dark" or "Light" is your 3rd Imperium came with different referee's games and interests. The area we used for our campaigns was the foreven sector of course and like most players there ensued a time of sector and subsector mapping to "fill in the blanks". There were parasitic pirate campaigns, empire building, technological build up, ancient adventures and a slow maturing of the ways and types of campaigns. Eventually the group changed and matured, others joined in an brought in their viewpoints and ideas. The game became more refined and even started to include real life elements from science, technology, movies and even military examples. But light and darkness came from the style and form of play created by the referees. The rebellion and the empire theme was pretty engraned after watching star wars, but the arguement that it was'nt canon was also a compelling arguement. Eventually the fact that it was'nt canon was'nt an issue, it was simply a plot device for the storyline. Players became aware that the Imperium was'nt always the shining becon of freedom. That the Zhodani were'nt necessarily the evil thought controlling empire they were thought to be, and stranger still was the realization that even mighty Aslan warriors had reason to fear crossing the deep rift when they held information about things that men or aslans were not ment to know... Still other areas of the Imperium were explored, the Capital was a place of strength and power and in the Core adventures tended to be short unless one was exceedingly careful, lucky or skilled. The light of the Capital also cast long shadows that hide monsters both human and inhuman. But then every once in a while bold Vilani, angry Vargr and impetuous Imperials can and do make enough of a difference to be noticed... Oddly, it was discovered that Traveller canon provided many adventure ideas that were not as they appeared to be. That some of those rebels were not just decendants of losing factions thur the history of the Imperium, but that some of those losers were in fact still around. And still part of the problems in the system... Still, I find that there are concrete benefits to being a Citizen of the Imperium, If one can rise above the bonds of the local planetary government enough to get off planet. It just depends on the citizens will, luck and skills... Those benefits include rights to travel, commerce and the freedom to seek each individuals own path to happiness, sucess and the responsibilities of duty, honor and self discipline. There's the satisfaction of a Shipsmaster or Captain, the business owner and merchant, as well as that of the soldier, the scientist and the outlaw. These benefits don't just come from the individual's work but from the institutions they serve. All of which are at the pleasure or displeasure of the Emperor and his nobles. Some of which included NOT having to stand when the Emperor enters the room, the consent of the nobility at court, and the formal challenge of the duel... Besides no one wants to just roleplay several years of time on the prison planet. The light and the dark both have a place in the 3rd Imperium, but only the Referee knows just how strong or weak each side may be... Voidstar

10-09-2005, 06:49 PM	#8
ross_winn Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Florida	Re: How "dark" or "Light" is the (your?) 3rd IMPERIUM?? The Imperium is in much decline in my universe. Other than a few very charismatic leaders and a pretty astonishing hold on miltary force they just don't have much going for them. It takes as much as a decade for the Imperium to wake up and deal with things, then they just slip back into torpor. __________________ Ross Winn RPG.net Columnist & Freelance Geek ross.winn@gmail.com "Not just another ugly face..."

10-09-2005, 07:44 PM	#9
Qoltar Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio U.S.A.	Re: How "dark" or "Light" is the (your?) 3rd IMPERIUM?? hhmm..inyeresting - maybe the reason I asked is that I kind of "Skipped" all that Rebellion/nasty birus/new era stuff. When that was going on I had shifted to STAR TREK:The RPG by FASA...then various GURPS campains over the years - so when SJGAmes got the TRAVELLER License - it was like "coming Home" for me. So both originally and currently I've always known a 2rd IMPERIUM universe that has Strephon as Emperor - but in the old days I ran my "own" universe not the compant one. My groups back then were runing around about 47 parsecs from Earth in the 29th centuryt. I had used the World and subsector generation rules - to create my own "Verse" Although I did use the SOLOMANI RIM book for known Star placement - figuring the GDW guys had done the home work. To be honest I was never interested in running anything close to the "canon" universe - until GURPS:TRAVELLER came out. I was actually surprised to find my notes from an old session or 2 that I had run in the Trin's Veil area.... from like the early 1980s. (!!) So, I won't go into TOO much detail .....(since one of my players is now on these forums and might want to be surprised a little from time to time) BUT I've sort of decided that there some VERY DARK in the soul members of the nobility within the 3rd Imperium in my 'Verse...but there are also a few Good Good hearts amonst the Bureacracy and nobility. Its just not always going to be predictable just "WHO" you can get an even break from .... Still love to hear more thoughts on this everyone. - E.W. Charlton

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