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01-02-2012, 06:02 AM   #21
vierasmarius

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Re: Help needed with leveled powers

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Grunker Actually, it's supposed to be a cone that iniates directly in front of the Witcher. Isn't cone handled like this per default? If not, it should have a Range of 1. What's that limitation called? Making it work like melee attack seems... well very weird, to say the least.
What Cone does is it fills an area that starts 1 yard wide at the caster, and expands to the maximum width (Cone is a leveled enhancement) at the end of the Max range. So if the Max range is 20 yards, and the Cone is 5 yards, then it'll be 1 yard wide at 1-4 yards, 2 yards wide from 5-8 yards, 3 yards wide from 9-12 yards, 4 yards wide from 13-16, and 5 yards wide from 17-20. To have a DnD-style Cone that's as wide as it is long, you'll need to take the Cone enhancement at a level equal to Max range. For example, Range 5/5 yd (-25%), Cone 5 (100%).

 01-02-2012, 06:03 AM #22 Grunker     Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Re: Help needed with leveled powers Huh? I'm sure I read in the RAW ha Cone two meters wide at the end (50% + 20%) is also two meters long?
01-02-2012, 06:07 AM   #23
vierasmarius

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Re: Help needed with leveled powers

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Grunker Huh? I'm sure I read in the RAW ha Cone two meters wide at the end (50% + 20%) is also two meters long?
Basic Set, pg.103:
Quote:
 Decide on the maximum width of the cone, in yards, at the attack’s maximum range. Cone costs +50% plus +10% per yard of maximum width.
Basic Set, pg.413:
Quote:
 A cone is one yard wide at its origin, but increases in width at a “rate of spread” equal to its specified maximum width divided by its maximum range. For instance, a cone with a maximum range of 100 yards and a maximum width of 5 yards would spread by one yard per 20 yards of range; out at 60 yards, it would be three yards wide.
The default range of an Innate Attack is 10/100 yards, and the Cone enhancement doesn't change that. So a 2 yd cone would be 2 yards wide at a distance of 100-200 yards, unless you reduce the max range. This is actually good news for you though, since it'll further bring down the cost of the power. As I mentioned above, range 5/5 is -25%. Extrapolating from the Reduced Range table, range 3/3 is -30% and range 2/2 is -35%. Note however that it's not exactly RAW to reduce range by that much.

Another option would be something like Jet (which turns the attack into a pseudo melee weapon) for a range of 5/10, but that would only hit one target per attack. Or you could make it a true Melee attack with a reach of 1-4, like a whip.

One more thing comes to mind, but again it's not really RAW. Area and Emanation together make an attack that radiates in a circle around the caster. You could reduce the value of Area based on the fraction of a circle that it covers. Based on the values for Accessibility, 180° would be -20% (ie, reduce Area 2 yd from +50% to +40%), 120° would be around -30%, and 60° would be maybe -40%. Don't hold me to those numbers though...

EDIT: Running through those numbers, looks like a 60° area should be -20% if I want it to be close to the value of an equal-sized Cone. That gives me these totals:
Code:
```Cone 2 (70%), Range 2/2 (-35%) = +35%
Cone 3 (80%), Range 3/3 (-30%) = +50%
Cone 5 (100%), Range 5/5 (-25%) = +75%

Area 2 (60°, 40%), Emanation (-20%) = +20%
Area 3 (60°, 60%), Emanation (-20%) = +40%
Area 5 (60°, 100%), Emanation (-20%) = +80%```

Last edited by vierasmarius; 01-02-2012 at 06:29 AM.

 01-02-2012, 06:29 AM #24 Bruno     Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Re: Help needed with leveled powers I like to combine Jet and Cone for this sort of effect. It's not RAW, as Jet makes the IA into a pseudo-Melee attack and is therefore incompatible with Cone, but in practice it seems to work out fine. I've got enough players that expect cone-type attacks to not suffer range penalties on the to-hit roll that it makes everyone happy too. __________________ All about Size Modifier; Grand Unified Hit Location Table A Wiki for my F2F Group
01-02-2012, 06:41 AM   #25
vierasmarius

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Re: Help needed with leveled powers

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bruno I like to combine Jet and Cone for this sort of effect. It's not RAW, as Jet makes the IA into a pseudo-Melee attack and is therefore incompatible with Cone, but in practice it seems to work out fine. I've got enough players that expect cone-type attacks to not suffer range penalties on the to-hit roll that it makes everyone happy too.
I could see that working. It does feel a bit expensive for the utility it provides, since range penalties don't matter much anyways when you're only talking about 5-10 yards, and you've got the +4 for targetting an area. But it's certainly much simpler than figuring out the Reduced Range limitation.

 01-02-2012, 06:59 AM #26 Grunker     Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Re: Help needed with leveled powers Jet + Cone sounds like somewhat like what I'm looking for. Maybe I'll reduce Jet's cost since it isn't as effective as it should be in this case. I dunno, I'll figure something out, and put up the final result when it's done. Thanks a ton guys. Expect me to be back when I start working on the next signs (there are six in total) :D
01-02-2012, 08:30 AM   #27
vierasmarius

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Re: Help needed with leveled powers

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Grunker Jet + Cone sounds like somewhat like what I'm looking for. Maybe I'll reduce Jet's cost since it isn't as effective as it should be in this case. I dunno, I'll figure something out, and put up the final result when it's done. Thanks a ton guys. Expect me to be back when I start working on the next signs (there are six in total) :D
I look forward to seeing how this turns out. I'm a fan of the Witcher games, and really like the Powers approach for these sorts of abilities.

 01-02-2012, 08:34 AM #28 Bruno     Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Re: Help needed with leveled powers Compare Jet (range 2/2) -20% with Melee (1,2 cannot Parry) -25%. The Melee attack can't attack into reach C which might explain that -5% difference; the Melee version never suffers range penalties either, but it's much less clear how it interacts with Cone. I'd say the Jet is fairly priced as-is. __________________ All about Size Modifier; Grand Unified Hit Location Table A Wiki for my F2F Group
01-02-2012, 08:43 AM   #29
Grunker

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: Help needed with leveled powers

^Awesome

Quote:
 Originally Posted by vierasmarius I look forward to seeing how this turns out. I'm a fan of the Witcher games, and really like the Powers approach for these sorts of abilities.
I'm an old refugee from 3rd edition, which I used extensively to play Vampire: The Masquerade. Therefore, when I made my Witcher compendium initially I made the Signs as M/H skills - essentially poorly designed spells.

Someone said I should use the power system, but even though I'd played a lot of I hadn't played around with that at all.

Now I have, so I thought I'd actually make my Witcher project into something the setting deserves. My Witcher alchemy-system could use some work as well. Particular I think I'm gonna integrate it into the existing alchemy system... how, I dunno, but that's another topic for when Signs are finished :)

01-02-2012, 08:55 AM   #30
vierasmarius

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Re: Help needed with leveled powers

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bruno Compare Jet (range 2/2) -20% with Melee (1,2 cannot Parry) -25%. The Melee attack can't attack into reach C which might explain that -5% difference; the Melee version never suffers range penalties either, but it's much less clear how it interacts with Cone. I'd say the Jet is fairly priced as-is.
Comparing Jet+Cone to Reduced Range+Cone, they're pretty close. Jet is a bit more expensive, by about 5-20%. Assuming that it can use some of the options allowed to other Jet attacks (such as making an All-Out Attack that increases the width but cuts damage to 1/3) then that does seem fair.