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Old 01-01-2012, 10:02 PM   #11
Grunker
 
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I think what he meant was not so much just the written example but your saying your going to have other such powers. Some of those might be more or less dangerous. And note that with double KNB even with no wounding it does not mean it wounding to damage. At the least it could knock them back or down which can be a big factor in a fight. And knocking them into a wall probably will be fairly common as an option. Knocking them off a bridge or something a rare one but potentially very deadly. So with all of that it can be a powerful ability, especially if most are not prepared for it.
Sure, you're absolutely right, but that's in the point cost, right? I mean, bow and arrow defeats this power early on and even later, for a cheaper point cost. But in the end such a balance discussion is difficult in GURPS, which is why you, in my opinion, have to rely on the point cost system to do some of the work for you.

It's hard to predict and cost everything precisely right noting all factors.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

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I'm not sure I understand your point entirely LemmingLord, but you do realize the power has No Wounding right?

Besides that, as I said I'm not entirely sure I understand you :)
You know I did catch that the first time through... but then forgot it by the time i returned.. :)

With no wouding I would definitely reduce any UB costs since it is unlikely to give a huge advantage in day to day adventuring... Pushing people back a few steps is neat, but if it is not sustainable it merely adds to the fun of tactical combat..

Obviously it should still be worth a higher UB cost if no one realized this power was likely and there are often fights taking place up high on trecherous footing where the blast will knock several foes over to their doom in one attack...

But I as a GM would probably be talked into letting them have this power with a 0 UB cost... of course if they have other powers that aren't so fun that are more useful than their cost would suggest I might bump the UB cost.

This is all theoretical of course since I usually just tell my players to tell me what they want to build and I say "sure" and call it good. I think I would be happy with this ability.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

Alright, I get ya! :D

On another note, a hypothetical question, since I'm playing around with GURPS Powers now: is there a way to make this power stun? Something like targets hit in the Will vs. HT contest need to make a HT-roll or be stunned or similar?
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:12 PM   #14
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

Having Malediction on this build seems very strange to me. It hugely increases the cost but only makes things worse for the caster.
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:51 AM   #15
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

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Having Malediction on this build seems very strange to me. It hugely increases the cost but only makes things worse for the caster.
That was my thought too. Without Mal, you can just fire the attack and it hits everything in a cone. Add Mal, and it costs more, plus you need to make an opposed roll vs each target to affect them. If he just wants to add a resistance roll to a cone attack, there's the Resistable limitation (though that's not an opposed roll, just a penalized HT roll).

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Originally Posted by Grunker View Post
Alright, I get ya! :D

On another note, a hypothetical question, since I'm playing around with GURPS Powers now: is there a way to make this power stun? Something like targets hit in the Will vs. HT contest need to make a HT-roll or be stunned or similar?
Absolutely! Well, knockback by itself carries the possibility of knocking down and stunning targets. But you can also add Side Effect (Stun) for +50% (Basic pg.109). This means that on any hit, the targets roll HT vs 1/2 the penetrating damage, or suffer from stun. If the attack is supposed to be a concussive blast or sonic wave, you could add a Secondary effect like Deafness.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:07 AM   #16
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

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That was my thought too. Without Mal, you can just fire the attack and it hits everything in a cone. Add Mal, and it costs more, plus you need to make an opposed roll vs each target to affect them. If he just wants to add a resistance roll to a cone attack, there's the Resistable limitation (though that's not an opposed roll, just a penalized HT roll).
That works ALOT better than an opposed roll for the purposes of this power. Actually, malediction is a left-over from when this power didn't have No Wounding, and it just never occurred to me to remove it! But you're right of course, it makes perfect sense to remove malediction. It also helps make this power cheaper which I've been looking for ways to do.

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Absolutely! Well, knockback by itself carries the possibility of knocking down and stunning targets. But you can also add Side Effect (Stun) for +50% (Basic pg.109). This means that on any hit, the targets roll HT vs 1/2 the penetrating damage, or suffer from stun. If the attack is supposed to be a concussive blast or sonic wave, you could add a Secondary effect like Deafness.
Deafness wouldn't really fit in lore-wise and I'm trying to stay true to the Witcher books. For the stunning - thanks a bunch! However, will the blunt trauma damage, which is the only damage this power deals, be enough to justify a +50% enhancement for a very small chance to stun? I mean even at level 5 the blunt trauma this power deals isn't that impressive and will rarely mean anything more than a HT-roll vs. maybe 5 (since it's just half the damage dealt).

Is there a way around this? Maybe a way to base it on the basic damage?
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:24 AM   #17
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

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Deafness wouldn't really fit in lore-wise and I'm trying to stay true to the Witcher books. For the stunning - thanks a bunch! However, will the blunt trauma damage, which is the only damage this power deals, be enough to justify a +50% enhancement for a very small chance to stun? I mean even at level 5 the blunt trauma this power deals isn't that impressive and will rarely mean anything more than a HT-roll vs. maybe 5 (since it's just half the damage dealt).

Is there a way around this? Maybe a way to base it on the basic damage?
"Penetrating damage" is not the same as "injury." For an attack with No Wounding, Penetrating Damage just means "rolled damage minus DR." For example: Geralt hits an enemy soldier with Aard level 3, for 3d damage, and rolls 10 damage. The soldier is wearing Medium Brigandine, for 5 DR. This means that the penetrating damage is 5, so he rolls HT-2 (1/2 damage, rounded down) to resist the stun. The basic damage of 10 is doubled to 20 for the purpose of knockback, sending him flying 2 yards (assuming ST 12-). If he resists the stun, he also needs to roll DX-1 (ie, -1 per yard after the first) to remain standing. However, because the damage is not Wounding, he doesn't take any injury (lose HP) unless as a secondary effect of the knockback (slamming into a wall, falling off a ledge, etc).

A 3d hit against an unarmored target will typically stun at HT-5, making it almost guaranteed except against the hardiest of foes. The full 5d would be resisted at HT-8, or HT-4 even against someone in Heavy Plate armor. If you want the power to be either more or less effective against armored foes, you can add an Armor Divisor or Multiplier.

Last edited by vierasmarius; 01-02-2012 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:35 AM   #18
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

Or malediction, right? ;)

Anyway, thanks, I'm a total idiot. I've been playing fourth ed for a bunch of years now and even made a small introductory pamflet for my new players where I, among other things, explain the concept of basic damage, penetrating damage and injury, so I don't know why I read penetrating damage as injury.

Anyway, Side Effect (Stun) is perfect then. Now I'm unsure whether to add an armor divisor, keep malediction, or not add any of them... will probably decide on the latter.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

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Anyway, Side Effect (Stun) is perfect then. Now I'm unsure whether to add an armor divisor, keep malediction, or not add any of them... will probably decide on the latter.
Yeah, leaving the power as-is will keep the cost down, and give better-equipped enemies an advantage in resisting it, which seems in keeping with the spirit of the game.

Something else to consider is the range, which by default is 10/100 yards. That seems pretty far for this power... you could consider cutting it down to maybe 10/20 yards for -10% (I know it's not strictly RAW to reduce only Max range and leave 1/2D as is, but looks fair enough to me). Also, the default "noticeability" of Innate Attacks is equivalent to a gunshot (~140 dB). Making it more obvious than that would make it as loud as an artillery piece, at least (~170 dB). Not sure if that's your intention.

Last edited by vierasmarius; 01-02-2012 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: Help needed with leveled powers

Actually, it's supposed to be a cone that iniates directly in front of the Witcher. Isn't cone handled like this per default?

If not, it should have a Range of 1. What's that limitation called? Making it work like melee attack seems... well very weird, to say the least.
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