Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?

[JCurwen3]

How would you build the resonances of standard Shedim and Kyriotates in GURPS 4th ed terms?

Possession the GURPS advantage doesn't seem at all right for the standard Shedim resonance, which doesn't seem to give them control over the bodies they're inhabiting, only "[desensitizing the] hosts to obscenity by bending their minds to [the Shedite's] celestial will, convincing them that such perversion was their idea". That sounds more like the Mind Control advantage, but then there is the sticking point that the Shedite is physically inhabiting the host form too (some extremely limited form of Possession with a limitation?).

And Kyriotates are complicated because they can possess multiple hosts. That could be a combination of Compartmentalized Mind levels and Possession. But that alone doesn't handle the fact that they can only possess up to their Forces in total host Forces. Forces as a concept don't exist in GURPS, but the way it should work is that they could possess a great many "weak" hosts (like all the insects in a swarm), or a human and two dogs, or just several more than two dogs at once, or two humans (if one of them was a child, or two adults if the Kyriotate we were modelling had enough Forces in In Nomine for that). Since character points are a rough indication of relative power in GURPS, it feels like the best way to model it would be to limit their Possession against some total possessible character point value, but I have no idea how to do this.

And finally, Shedim of Saminga, and Kyriotates of Laurence - they can possess the dead. What's needed to model that?

[Langy]

I have absolutely no idea what a 'Shedim' or 'Kyriotate' is. What fiction/myth are they from?

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Langy

I have absolutely no idea what a 'Shedim' or 'Kyriotate' is. What fiction/myth are they from?

I'm thinking JCurwen3 is referencing In Nomine, based on the "resonance" bit. I also seem to recall seeing "Kyriotate" in my IN book; I just haven't dug it out of storage to be sure.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Langy

I have absolutely no idea what a 'Shedim' or 'Kyriotate' is. What fiction/myth are they from?

In Nomine, the RPG of angels and demons, also from SJG.

But what they are isn't really important, neither is familiarity with In Nomine, really. How would you build their possession abilities, as I described them? Or, if something is unclear about their abilities, let me know and I can answer questions about them.

(1) Shedite: Possesses a person and then corrupts them over time, getting them to do things they normally wouldn't do; the host thinks it's his idea and comes to morally rationalize those things.

(2) Kyriotate: Can possess multiple people (up to a limit), as per Possession combined with Compartmentalized Mind levels (up to that limit), but has a built-in limitation on the total power level of all he possesses (as per my previous description.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

(1) Shedite: Possesses a person and then corrupts them over time, getting them to do things they normally wouldn't do; the host thinks it's his idea and comes to morally rationalize those things.

That sounds like Mind Control w/ Conditioning Only or Suggestion. Possibly with an Accessibility limitation to represent only being able to use it on a person you are possessing.

Alternately just give them lots of Charisma and Diplomacy.

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

(2) Kyriotate: Can possess multiple people (up to a limit), as per Possession combined with Compartmentalized Mind levels (up to that limit), but has a built-in limitation on the total power level of all he possesses (as per my previous description.

A limitation of Compartmentalized Mind, call it Will Limited, that limits you to Will 10 worth of people per level (ie three levels lets you control three people with Will 10, four people with Will 7, six people with Will , two people with Will 12).

I'd eyeball it around -20% since there's more things that increase a person's effective Will than there are people with especially low Will.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

(1) Shedite: Possesses a person and then corrupts them over time, getting them to do things they normally wouldn't do; the host thinks it's his idea and comes to morally rationalize those things.

The control bit sounds a lot like Mind Control with the Rationalization enhancement, while the physically-possessing part may be Permeability (Flesh).

(2) Kyriotate: Can possess multiple people (up to a limit), as per Possession combined with Compartmentalized Mind levels (up to that limit), but has a built-in limitation on the total power level of all he possesses (as per my previous description.

The total power level limit isn't something you can easily model with RAW GURPS modifiers. Maybe just put Accessibility (Total point cost must be less than x% of character point cost) *shrug*

Possessing the Dead instead of the Living is probably just a 0-point feature on Possession, maybe a +50% Cosmic enhancement if you can do both.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Langy

The control bit sounds a lot like Mind Control with the Rationalization enhancement, while the physically-possessing part may be Permeability (Flesh).

Interesting, I think that would work, thanks!

Originally Posted by Langy

The total power level limit isn't something you can easily model with RAW GURPS modifiers. Maybe just put Accessibility (Total point cost must be less than x% of character point cost) *shrug*

Again, hadn't thought of that, but an Accessibility like that would work, thanks. Now all I have to do is put a value on that Accessibility...

Originally Posted by Langy

Possessing the Dead instead of the Living is probably just a 0-point feature on Possession, maybe a +50% Cosmic enhancement if you can do both.

You think it's just a feature? I'm not sure about that, because a limitation built into the base ability is that if the host dies, you die. I can see it working maybe with a Cosmic: Works on the dead (+50%), with that making it so it only works on the dead (add +100% to that so it works on both). And I guess you would die if the body reached -10xHP?

[Langy]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

You think it's just a feature? I'm not sure about that, because a limitation built into the base ability is that if the host dies, you die. I can see it working maybe with a Cosmic: Works on the dead (+50%), with that making it so it only works on the dead (add +100% to that so it works on both). And I guess you would die if the body reached -10xHP?

Woops - I forgot that it's effectively animating an unliving object. This is actually Permeation (Flesh) plus Telekinesis (Animation, Melee range, Accessibility: Things I've permeated only), probably with TK being around level 20. The host body also gains Injury Tolerance (Unliving) and has twice the HP it had as a living creature, while the 'animator' uses his own DX instead of the creature's DX.

[Bruno]

I would actually go with a 0% feature, if it turns the dead body into a GURPS Magic style Zombie, which is a very negative point cost template, even when you remove the mental restrictions. It also gives a clear set of HP, and a clear death point.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I would actually go with a 0% feature, if it turns the dead body into a GURPS Magic style Zombie, which is a very negative point cost template, even when you remove the mental restrictions. It also gives a clear set of HP, and a clear death point.

That's what I was originally thinking, but by the RAW Telekinesis probably works better, unless you also include some way to turn a dead body into a zombie.