Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-28-2011, 11:53 AM   #1
Piperdog
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Gurps Dungeon Lite

You know, I have played Gurps since the 80's, and it has been our groups mainstay for many years. But in recent years, I really wanted to lighten the rules, and the Gurps Lite really isn't what I mean. I ended up going to Savage Worlds and Cortex, because it is just faster and less cumbersome. In the end, though, I miss the simple concept of rolling 3d6 under my skill. Doesn't get any easier than that, right? I understand the whole BANG! skill thing, but that is TOO light for me. I was really hoping that for Dungeon Fantasy someone would write a "powered by Gurps" sort of subgame. You could have many skills grouped together, like Bladed Weapons, Blunt Weapons, or even all together like Melee, Ranged, Subterfuge, etc. with advantages allowing further customization. Not sure how to go about it but I really don't play Gurps anymore. I miss it in a lot of ways, but just can't get into it anymore as is. I started looking into old copies of Advanced Fantasy Trip to create some sort of hybrid for my group. I wish SJG would just create a simpler version, a similar but modified game. (Don't say Ultralite, because thats too light also. I know I know...I am hard to please lol).
Piperdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 01:09 PM   #2
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: Gurps Dungeon Lite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piperdog View Post
I understand the whole BANG! skill thing, but that is TOO light for me. I was really hoping that for Dungeon Fantasy someone would write a "powered by Gurps" sort of subgame. You could have many skills grouped together, like Bladed Weapons, Blunt Weapons, or even all together like Melee, Ranged, Subterfuge, etc. with advantages allowing further customization.
Can you explain how "Bladed Weapons" isn't a Bang! skill? It sure seems like one.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Grand Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 01:52 PM   #3
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: Gurps Dungeon Lite

Have you read the DF books? They really are quite "out of the box" easy to use and come with lots of ways to simplify things, including various wildcard skills, suggestions for the GM as to how to speed up combats, when PCs should use skills, etc. DF2 is especially helpful here.
Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 07:47 PM   #4
PK
Assistant GURPS Line Editor
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: Gurps Dungeon Lite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Can you explain how "Bladed Weapons" isn't a Bang! skill? It sure seems like one.
Agreed. In fact, I have it on good authority that an upcoming GURPS book will have a "Blade!" wildcard skill that covers just that.
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 06:26 AM   #5
Piperdog
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Re: Gurps Dungeon Lite

Quote:
Can you explain how "Bladed Weapons" isn't a Bang! skill? It sure seems like one.
I guess any abbreviated skill set is technically a BANG! skill; when I talk about it I mean BANG! skills like Knight! Ninja! and so on. Those are way too simplified for what I would like. I started doing preliminary work at rewriting the rules, from character gen, advantages and disadvantages, advancement, and so on, I thought "What the hell? I am making an entirely new game inspired by Gurps, but it isn't quite Gurps. " I have even played with the idea of changing the dice used, like a d20 or 3d8 or something, and then sell it, because DANG. It is a lot of work. Which leads me to this.

I just would like to see it done for me, written up in a nice print book, because 1. I am very busy with real life and 2. When not busy with real life I am insanely lazy. lol.

Quote:
Have you read the DF books? They really are quite "out of the box" easy to use and come with lots of ways to simplify things, including various wildcard skills, suggestions for the GM as to how to speed up combats, when PCs should use skills, etc. DF2 is especially helpful here.
Yep. I have them. Some of the suggestions are quite good. One of my main dislikes of it though is the entire character generation structure. I was hoping DF was going to be a different game I guess. Like my idea of truncated skills, I was hoping for truncated advantages as well; broader strokes across the board, stuff like that. I wanted to see 100 - 125 pt character templates and have them work their way up to 250 pnt characters, not start there. I hate the laundry list included in character generation and was hoping for an abbreviated version in DF.

Oh well. I will just continue my project I suppose.
Piperdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 06:50 AM   #6
SCAR
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Default Re: Gurps Dungeon Lite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piperdog View Post
You know, I have played Gurps since the 80's, and it has been our groups mainstay for many years. But in recent years, I really wanted to lighten the rules, and the Gurps Lite really isn't what I mean. I ended up going to Savage Worlds and Cortex, because it is just faster and less cumbersome. In the end, though, I miss the simple concept of rolling 3d6 under my skill.
In my experience, Savage Worlds and Cortex aren't really any faster or less cumbersome than GURPS to play. In many ways they're simpler, but that turns out to be not such a good thing, as it easily becomes less flexible.
(And don't get me started on the holes in the Savage Worlds dice mechanics)
3d6 (with Nd6 for damage) is much easier than 2 dice of different sizes, with re-rolls, and then calculating the number of 4 point steps you are over the target number. (much slower!)

Most of the complexity of GURPS is in the character generation, but this is one of the main reasons why it is just way more flexible than those other games.
Templates make this much quicker and easier, Character from a DF template (10 minutes if you're not too indecisive) - and when the up coming DF:Loadouts is available, equiping the character should be as easy too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piperdog View Post
...I was hoping for truncated advantages as well; broader strokes across the board, stuff like that. I wanted to see 100 - 125 pt character templates and have them work their way up to 250 pnt characters, not start there. I hate the laundry list included in character generation and was hoping for an abbreviated version in DF.
Eric B. Smith wrote an article (here) with modified templates to allow DF at 100, 150 or 200 point levels

The Knight! (etc) Bang! Skills don't just replace the templates whole skill list - most replace less than a dozen skill per template for the primary skills, which means characters will roll on their Template! skill for their Niche activities, but use standard skills for other tasks.

It would also be easy enough to combine Advantages into Meta-Traits for compactness; e.g. Combat Ready [25] = Combat Reflexes + High Pain Threshold ?

You'd have to do some work, but far less than building your own game (I've been down that road too, GURPS 4e save me from that!); and you might find an outlet for such things as articles for Pyramid or e23 PDFs too.

As is often said, GURPS is a toolkit; DF is a worked example of a specific genre with specific assumptions. If your assumptions are different, you can use the toolkit to tinker a bit - and it doesn't sound like what you want is actually too far from what DF gives you as a starting point!
SCAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 07:24 AM   #7
Piperdog
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Re: Gurps Dungeon Lite

Hey thanks SCAR! I will look up the Eric Smith article on 100 pt characters...sounds like what I'm after. As to the Meta Traits compactness, you are right on the money. I want to have a document to pass around to new players who have never played before, mainly converts from d20 fantasy, and be able to make characters in ten minutes. A Gurps lite, saddle stitched book with abbreviated lists of skills and advantages taylored to DF. I think if SJgames just did that even, just a DF Gurps lite abbreviated book taylored for the genre, it would help immensely.

Oh, and Cortex is a bid fiddly. You're right about the skill steps thing. Savage Worlds does have holes in mechanics, but I have to admit I love the ease and speed of play, whether I am running a game or playing. Gurps though was the game we left d20 for back in the late 80's, and played campaign after campaign, from Supers to typical fantasy to Pulp and Horror, not to mention a variety of Sci Fi games. Everyone grew up and moved away, only to miraculously get relocated back to our hometown area many years later. So....our gaming group (a bunch of high school buds, now married with kids) has been back in action for quite a few years. I am the only one who strays from Gurps; they always chide me and say "Dude, why would I learn a whole different system when GURPS handles any game I want to play already? It took me long enough to master this one, and I sure as hell am not going to invest any more of my time learning a new gaming system...."
or some such similar comment. lol. I do play now with some other guys every once in a while, running a Castles and Crusades or Savage Worlds game, but with my main buds, it's Gurps.
Piperdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 12:34 PM   #8
simply Nathan
formerly known as 'Kenneth Latrans'
 
simply Nathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
Default Re: Gurps Dungeon Lite

There's another system out there that's very similar to a simplified GURPS. Throw in Active Defense (probably DX/2 with a bonus from wearing a shield) and you'd practically be good to go, though I'd rather use GURPS' pricing scheme for attributes and skills than DCG's. Adding the HT stat probably wouldn't hurt, either.
__________________
Ba-weep granah wheep minibon. Wubba lubba dub dub.
simply Nathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 04:20 AM   #9
benz72
 
benz72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Park, San Diego
Default Re: Gurps Dungeon Lite

I don't know if this will help you, but for the Fallout game I just started I decided to lump skills together for simplicity
All the Electronics Operations & Computer operations/programming skill into one MIQ/H skill

Surgury, diagnosis and first aid became the same IQ/H skill with first aid rolls getting a +2 'immediately obvious what the problem is' bonus

Stealth, Camoflage & Shadowing merged

Guns is just guns, with familiarity penalties by weapon (1911 style .45 ACP, .357 revolver), not by weapon type (pistol, rifle, SG), though crew served (but still man portable weapons) are gunner and beam weapons covers lasers and plasma weapons.

There are a few others that I put together too, but I don't recall what they are at the moment.

The way I see it, Fallout is a very cinematic setting (somewhat like DF) and heros should be pretty competent wihtout having to have 75 skills on each character sheet. YMMV
__________________
Benundefined
Life has a funny way of making sure you decide to leave the party just a few minutes too late to avoid trouble.
benz72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.