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Old 03-23-2011, 07:45 PM   #1
Dragondog
Never Been Pretty
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Default Chess Skill Levels

Inspired by http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...96&postcount=9 and the fact that I'm working on a character that's a Chess Grandmaster, I wanted to figure out how to translate FIDE ratings into GURPS skills.

To do so, I started with two assumptions.
1. FIDE 2500 is the same as GURPS skill 15
2. Playing a game of chess is represented by a Regular Contest

Starting with skill 15 and mapping the probable outcome of a Regular Contest with the probable outcome of a game of chess, I got the result listed below. Where a range of FIDE ratings is listed with one skill level, the rating furthest away from 2500 was calculated from 2500 while the other rating was calculated from the previous skill level. In other words. For skill 18, 2767 was calculated from 2678 while 2785 was calculated from 2500. And for skill 12, 2157 is calculated from 2500 and 2197 from 2300.

The highest ever recorded FIDE rating was 2851 and belonged to Garry Kasparov.

All research was made on Wikipedia.

19: FIDE 2856-2896
18: FIDE 2767-2785
17: FIDE 2678-2682
16: FIDE 2589
15: FIDE 2500 (minimum Grandmaster)
14: FIDE 2411 (minimum International Master 2400)
13: FIDE 2260-2300 (minimum FIDE Master 2300)
12: FIDE 2157-2197

What do you think?
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:21 PM   #2
lexington
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: Chess Skill Levels

Your skill levels seem low. Kasparov is the "confirmed top master of all time" which would be skill 22.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:37 PM   #3
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Chess Skill Levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragondog

19: FIDE 2856-2896
18: FIDE 2767-2785
17: FIDE 2678-2682
16: FIDE 2589
15: FIDE 2500 (minimum Grandmaster)
14: FIDE 2411 (minimum International Master 2400)
13: FIDE 2260-2300 (minimum FIDE Master 2300)
12: FIDE 2157-2197

What do you think?
Well... It's kinda stingy in comparison to the quoted post of Kromm's for championship contenders, and relegating everyone below Expert to ≤ SL 11 seems harsh. I'd expand the range os useable levels as well as redefine the effective rankings covered by each.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:04 PM   #4
Purple Haze
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: Chess Skill Levels

You need to run it from the other direction.

GURPS tells us that a games such as chess is an IQ Easy skill. So the default is IQ-4. An adult of normal intelligence playing chess at the default level has a rating of about 800 (this is very well established).

A rating difference of 200 points gives a winning probability of 75% (by the definition of Elo).

More reference points. The average chess club member in North America has a rating of about 1100, the average tournament player about 1350. In Russia the average club player is about 1700.

Somebody should have the stats for quick contests by skill difference.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:39 PM   #5
Dragondog
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Default Re: Chess Skill Levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexington View Post
Your skill levels seem low. Kasparov is the "confirmed top master of all time" which would be skill 22.
If we give Kasparov a skill of 22, a grandmaster has a skill of 18-19 which seems high considering how many grandmasters there are (more than 1,000 alive as of 12 feb 2011).

I don't know how the current rating system compares with earlier rating systems, but the current system has only been used for less than 40 years and according to Wikipedia the first rating system saw use in 1933. So unless you know something I do not, we can only be certain Kasparov is Top Master Alive.

If we instead set 2500 as skill 16, 2851 would fall under skill 20, and 12 would go as low as 1993.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Well... It's kinda stingy in comparison to the quoted post of Kromm's for championship contenders, and relegating everyone below Expert to ≤ SL 11 seems harsh. I'd expand the range os useable levels as well as redefine the effective rankings covered by each.
I'm using the probabilities given by the ranking system to determine a skill level. The only way to change things would be to change what skill level corresponds with grandmaster (2500) as everything else depends on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Haze View Post
You need to run it from the other direction.

GURPS tells us that a games such as chess is an IQ Easy skill. So the default is IQ-4. An adult of normal intelligence playing chess at the default level has a rating of about 800 (this is very well established).

A rating difference of 200 points gives a winning probability of 75% (by the definition of Elo).

More reference points. The average chess club member in North America has a rating of about 1100, the average tournament player about 1350. In Russia the average club player is about 1700.

Somebody should have the stats for quick contests by skill difference.
As my interest was in skill levels around grandmaster, that's what I posted.

According to the formula I found at Wikipedia, a rating difference of 200 gives an expected score of 0.76 which for Regular Contests is close enough to say a 76% probability to win in.

On the other hand, if 2500 is 16, then 1100 would be 4 and that’s seems very low.

Where did you get your info that 800 is default adult rating?

Last edited by Dragondog; 03-23-2011 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:00 PM   #6
Dragondog
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Default Re: Chess Skill Levels

It should be added that the rating doesn’t rate your actual skill level, it rates how well you’ve played so far. So there may be a discrepancy between your actual skill level and the skill level derived from your rating.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:07 PM   #7
Purple Haze
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: Chess Skill Levels

Actually running the numbers I get +3 on a quick contest giving a winning percentages of 75.735%, so that is almost perfect for a 200 Elo difference. Makes it easy:

Code:
Elo          Skill
 800         6
1000         9
1200         12
1400         15
1600         18
1800         21
2000         24
2200         27
2400         30
2600         33
2800         36
3000         39
This even seems reasonable. One point and an IQ of 10 gives a skill of 10 seems like a rating of about 1067.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:12 PM   #8
Dragondog
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Default Re: Chess Skill Levels

Are you trying to tell me that a grandmaster needs a skill of 30? That's way too high! And I'm using Regular Contests.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:16 PM   #9
Edges
 
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Default Re: Chess Skill Levels

This comment and a dollar can get you a cup of coffee, but:

I'm probably rated around 1550 and knowing GURPS as I do would say I have about an 11 skill level.

I'd probably peg Master at 15, International at 16-17, and Grand at 18+.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:32 PM   #10
Dragondog
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Default Re: Chess Skill Levels

Some quick numbers with grandmaster as skill 18 based on the probabilities given by the rating system.

22: FIDE 2896
21: FIDE 2785
18: FIDE 2500 (grandmaster)
16: FIDE 2318
14: FIDE 2135
12: FIDE 1921
10: FIDE 1739
8: FIDE 1556
6: FIDE 1342
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