Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2011, 04:53 PM   #1
jacobmuller
 
jacobmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not in your time zone:D
Default Overkill on a Mozambique drill

I just want to check I'm doing the "death checks" correctly. Specifically, I'm not sure if the following results in 2 or 3 (although I'll not be surprised to hear I've got something else totally wrong:)) Thanks in advance...

The victim has 12HP and 12HT:
First shot is Vitals for 30 injury = HT roll or die and then HT-5 for Knockdown
Second is Vitals for 24 injury = HT roll or die* and HT-5 for Knockdown.
Assuming you're still alive and conscious, roll vs HT-3 at start of your next turn or fall unconscious.

*Or does the second hit result in Two HT rolls, one for each multiple of HT passed per B419, -1xHP
Quote:
Roll again each time you suffer injury equal to a further multiple of your HP, whether as a result of one wound or many
There was actually a third shot, brain hit for 56 injury, which made all the above moot, except possibly as a result of an autopsy and an IAD investigation: did the officer pause to check the effect of his first two shots or did he deliberately use unnecessary force, ie did he ignore the evidence of his own eyes or simply not realize how effective his first two shots had been?

10mm Compact ETK: 4d+1 (0.5) pi++; Acc 2; Rng 240/ 2,750; wgt 1.5/0.4; cap 15; ST 10; Bulk -1; $500; Boosted stats 6d pi+; 310/ 3,600.
__________________
"Sanity is a bourgeois meme." Exegeek
PS sorry I'm a Parthian shootist: shiftwork + out of = not here when you are:/
jacobmuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 05:08 PM   #2
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

This is a case of GURPS not precisely modeling reality, but the rules-correct implementation is:
Hit 1: reduces HP to -18. 1 death check (for passing -12)
Hit 2: reduces HP to -42. 2 death checks (for passing -24 and -36)
Hit 3: reduces HP to -98. Automatic death.

Of course, the Mozambique drill isn't really designed for pistols with the lethality of battle rifles.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 05:12 PM   #3
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Of course, the Mozambique drill isn't really designed for pistols with the lethality of battle rifles.
I was trained to do "failure drills" with the M16/M4 ("varmit round", I know).
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 05:16 PM   #4
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I was trained to do "failure drills" with the M16/M4 ("varmit round", I know).
I suspect the odds of needing three shots with an M16 is very low, unless of course you don't actually hit the vitals.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 05:17 PM   #5
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
I suspect the odds of needing three shots with an M16 is very low, unless of course you don't actually hit the vitals.
Which is likely if the target is wearing body armor.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 05:19 PM   #6
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Which is likely if the target is wearing body armor.
Ah, good point.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 05:28 PM   #7
Peter Knutsen
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
There was actually a third shot, brain hit for 56 injury, which made all the above moot, except possibly as a result of an autopsy and an IAD investigation: did the officer pause to check the effect of his first two shots or did he deliberately use unnecessary force, ie did he ignore the evidence of his own eyes or simply not realize how effective his first two shots had been?
I thought the MZBD was all about muscle memory, with literally no time to think between the double-tap and the headshot.

That's certainly the way it looked to me, in that Tom Cruise movie where he's playing an assassin (crappy movie, by the way; didn't like anything about it except the cool drill). Bangbangbang. Looked like it's become programmed into the spinal cord, not entirely unlike touch typing. I don't think between hitting the Y and the P key, because there's no time for it. I just write "typing".
Peter Knutsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 05:37 PM   #8
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
I thought the MZBD was all about muscle memory, with literally no time to think between the double-tap and the headshot.

That's certainly the way it looked to me, in that Tom Cruise movie where he's playing an assassin (crappy movie, by the way; didn't like anything about it except the cool drill). Bangbangbang. Looked like it's become programmed into the spinal cord, not entirely unlike touch typing. I don't think between hitting the Y and the P key, because there's no time for it. I just write "typing".
Do you own Tactical Shooting? The original genesis of the drill is explained on p15.

Cruise was discussed either in playtest or just in conversation between Hans, myself, and others. Apparently everyone was impressed on how he took to that drill (he seems a natural athlete, and quite the perfectionist, so he practiced a lot) and how well he did it.

But the point of the third shot to the head is that it's a CONSIDERED shot. The movie Collateral shows a cinematic version of it being performed fast, by an actor who was remarked upon for how VERY fast he could do it, even considered a quick study by his teachers.

That's in the book, too, by the way. On p82.
__________________
The Deadly Spring "...probably the most infamous Pyramid article of all time."-Jeffro's Car Wars Blog
Gaming Ballistic: Home of Gaming Ballistic, LLC and my blog.
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 06:04 PM   #9
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
There was actually a third shot, brain hit for 56 injury, which made all the above moot, except possibly as a result of an autopsy and an IAD investigation: did the officer pause to check the effect of his first two shots or did he deliberately use unnecessary force, ie did he ignore the evidence of his own eyes or simply not realize how effective his first two shots had been?
If the situation is judged to warrant deadly force, multiple shots that would have individually proven fatal* would probably only bring further investigation if the evidence showed that the range or angle changed significantly. That would suggest that the shooter had shot the target, moved, and shot again, as though he was finishing off a downed foe. Even then, if they were moving to arrest a wounded man and he went for his gun, they would probably be able to justify that.

If you're going to kill you might as well overkill. However, once someone is no longer a threat, cops call ambulances, not put an extra round in them. At the same time, cops don't normally make called shots to the head, and doing so might get someone labeled a loose cannon by the media (or a superior or IAD investigator with an axe to grind).

* "Instantly fatal" pretty much means a central nervous system injury. Heart, liver, and such might be instantly incapacitating and quickly fatal, but an autopsy probably won't reveal such details.
__________________
RyanW
Height: 5.93 light-nanoseconds
Weight: 13.9 yoctoEarths

Last edited by RyanW; 02-18-2011 at 06:10 PM.
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 06:21 PM   #10
Langy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
If you're going to kill you might as well overkill. However, once someone is no longer a threat, cops call ambulances, not put an extra round in them. At the same time, cops don't normally make called shots to the head, and doing so might get someone labeled a loose cannon by the media (or a superior or IAD investigator with an axe to grind).

* "Instantly fatal" pretty much means a central nervous system injury. Heart, liver, and such might be instantly incapacitating and quickly fatal, but an autopsy probably won't reveal such details.
Note that this isn't the case with SWAT teams taking out hostage takers, who are trained to shoot to the head for an instant kill in order to prevent them from injuring hostages while they die.
Langy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
basic, combat, death, tactical shooting

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.