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Old 12-19-2010, 09:32 PM   #1
gmjasongurps
 
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Default Move and Attack from kneeling positon

Can a character go from kneeling to standing during a Move and Attack maneuver? Or does the character have to stand up on one turn and then Move and Attack the next turn?
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: Move and Attack from kneeling positon

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Originally Posted by gmjasongurps View Post
Can a character go from kneeling to standing during a Move and Attack maneuver? Or does the character have to stand up on one turn and then Move and Attack the next turn?
You can stand as a step, so I'd allow it. Just say it costs an extra movement point if you're doing tactical combat.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Move and Attack from kneeling positon

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Originally Posted by gmjasongurps View Post
Can a character go from kneeling to standing during a Move and Attack maneuver? Or does the character have to stand up on one turn and then Move and Attack the next turn?
By rules as written, no. The Change Posture maneuver mentions "step and..." maneuvers and kneeling, neither Move nor Move and Attack are "step and..." maneuvers.

It makes sense to me to disallow it.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Move and Attack from kneeling positon

Actually, it says you can change from kneeling to standing without a Change Posture. It counts as a step, and Move is basically a series of steps.

I would say it costs one point of movement, so with Move 5 you could go from kneeling to standing using 1 point, then use the remaining 4 points to move 4 hexes (and attack if doing a Move and Attack).
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: Move and Attack from kneeling positon

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Actually, it says you can change from kneeling to standing without a Change Posture. It counts as a step, and Move is basically a series of steps.
"Basically", but not according to the rules.

Quote:
I wouold say it costs one point of movement, so with Move 5 you could go from kneeling to standing using 1 point, then use the remaining 4 points to move 4 hexes (and attack if doing a Move and Attack).
That's a possible house-ruling, but it's not RAW.
I think that Rules As Written explicitly mention "Step and..." maneuvers on purpose, just to prevent the move you described (e.g., to prevent a kneeling character to move around almost freely on the map, just losing 1 point of movement).
It sounds right to me than a kneeling character can stand up & attack almost as if he were standing, but that on the contrary he is impeded if he wants to take a "move..." maneuver.

Using your ruling, you seriously de-emphasize impact and meaning of being in a "kneeling" posture.
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Move and Attack from kneeling positon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmus Wagner View Post
The Change Posture maneuver mentions "step and..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
I think that Rules As Written explicitly mention "Step and..." maneuvers on
What "Step and" maneuvers? In 4th Edition, there aren't any such maneuvers, AFAICT. 3e had "Step and Attack" and so on. 4e simply has "Attack", FREX.
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Move and Attack from kneeling positon

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
What "Step and" maneuvers? In 4th Edition, there aren't any such maneuvers, AFAICT. 3e had "Step and Attack" and so on. 4e simply has "Attack", FREX.
From B364

Quote:
You can switch between kneeling
and standing (only) as the “step” portion
of any maneuver that allows a
step – you don’t need Change Posture
for that.
This is instead of using the
step to move. Thus, you could go from
prone to kneeling with a Change
Posture maneuver on one turn, and
then stand up in place on your next
turn by taking a maneuver that allows
a step.
I think it's reasonable, by the way, to claim that Move and Move and Attack allow "a step." To say "No, you can only rise to your feet and attack with Attack or Committed Attack, but not All-Out Attack or Move or Move and Attack, because they give you too much mobility" is just crazy.
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Move and Attack from kneeling positon

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Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
From B364
Right. I was just saying that no maneuver is a "Step and" maneuver in 4e. That's 3e terminology, and is (at least for me) confusing the issue.
Quote:
I think it's reasonable, by the way, to claim that Move and Move and Attack allow "a step." To say "No, you can only rise to your feet and attack with Attack or Committed Attack, but not All-Out Attack or Move or Move and Attack, because they give you too much mobility" is just crazy.
Martial Arts page 98 allows you to use either a Step or a Movement point when going the other way (from standing to kneeling, crawling or prone). Personally I'd allow a player to do it (using 1/10 their their Move to do so, in order to be consistent with Basic 368); if nothing else to in order to avoid the player revolt and the wasting of time with demonstrations and stop watch tests.
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Move and Attack from kneeling positon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
I think it's reasonable, by the way, to claim that Move and Move and Attack allow "a step." To say "No, you can only rise to your feet and attack with Attack or Committed Attack, but not All-Out Attack or Move or Move and Attack, because they give you too much mobility" is just crazy.
Let's also add p.B368, from the rules for steps:

Quote:
You can use a step to go from a kneeling to a standing posture (or vice versa) instead of moving. This requires your entire step, no matter how far you could normally move.
Let's also consider that there are two types of kneeling, on both legs or on one leg. You definitely can't get up and move if you were kneeling on both legs. With one leg, you would need to have the kneeling legs foot in a useful contact with the ground so that you can push off with that leg. Otherwise you need to use the other leg to lift you enough so that you get the foot on you kneeling leg into position for walking, which also isn't quick.

As it stands, this is something very easy to check. Just try to get up from a kneeling posture.

And those rules from MA? They only apply to certain attacks at reach C.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: Move and Attack from kneeling positon

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Originally Posted by Dinadon View Post
And those rules from MA? They only apply to certain attacks at reach C.
Which rules? I was referring to the diving from standing to kneeling, crawling or prone rule. Which doesn't have anything to do with an attack at all.
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