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Old 10-28-2010, 06:05 AM   #1
korbeau
 
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Default [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

I've read (again) Magic recently and for some strange reason, I read something and for the first time, i'm confused about something.

We can read about powerstone that: "If a Powerstone is attached to an item before that item is enchanted, the Powerstone becomes a part of the magical item. It is then a “dedicated” Powerstone. The item’s user may tap its energy – but only to power the spells cast by or through that item"

I understand the first part; if I build a staff of thunder, the energy for the spell will be taken from the powerstone but what about the second? Did it mean when you cast using a magic staff (the one mage can take to increase their reach) then the powerstone will fuel the spell instead of the mage?

If yes... then Magic staff, combine with powerstone is VEERRYY powerful!!
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:25 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

I would understand the by and though the item, that you can use its energy if you cast the spell the item is enchanted to cast. If the item has enough energy with the powerstone, you can cast the spell without using your own energy (by the item). If you need more energy, you have to use some - or all - from yourself (through the item).
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:53 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

Quote:
Originally Posted by korbeau View Post
I've read (again) Magic recently and for some strange reason, I read something and for the first time, i'm confused about something.

We can read about powerstone that: "If a Powerstone is attached to an item before that item is enchanted, the Powerstone becomes a part of the magical item. It is then a “dedicated” Powerstone. The item’s user may tap its energy – but only to power the spells cast by or through that item"

I understand the first part; if I build a staff of thunder, the energy for the spell will be taken from the powerstone but what about the second? Did it mean when you cast using a magic staff (the one mage can take to increase their reach) then the powerstone will fuel the spell instead of the mage?

If yes... then Magic staff, combine with powerstone is VEERRYY powerful!!
Yes, you understand correctly.

Yes, a magic staff with a dedicated powerstone is very powerfull.
(Untill it runs out of energy.)
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:22 AM   #4
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

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Originally Posted by korbeau View Post
Did it mean when you cast using a magic staff (the one mage can take to increase their reach) then the powerstone will fuel the spell instead of the mage?
Yes, this is one of the reasons why mages would carry staffs, rods and wands.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:20 PM   #5
arnej
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

Quote:
Originally Posted by korbeau View Post
I've read (again) Magic recently and for some strange reason, I read something and for the first time, i'm confused about something.

We can read about powerstone that: "If a Powerstone is attached to an tem before that item is enchanted, the Powerstone becomes a part of the magical item. It is then a “dedicated” Powerstone. The item’s user may tap its energy – but only to power the spells cast by or through that item"

I understand the first part; if I build a staff of thunder, the energy for the spell will be taken from the powerstone but what about the second? Did it mean when you cast using a magic staff (the one mage can take to increase their reach) then the powerstone will fuel the spell instead of the mage?

If yes... then Magic staff, combine with powerstone is VEERRYY powerful!!
This confusion has been popping up about this particular phrasing for over a decade. Here's the clarification from kromm (dated 2003)

Dr. Kromm specifically stated (and was archived in Kromm Notes II) that Dedicated and Exclusive Powerstones can only be used to power spells enchanted onto an item. Yes, this is apparently an area where Magic has been superseeded. I read it the same way you did at first (and second) pass.

------------------------------------------------
d) If a staff with the Staff spell on it has a dedicated powerstone imbedded in it (and nothing else), does this allow the user to cast spells such as Deathtouch, Lightning, (heck even History or Analyze Magic) through the staff and power it with the stone?

No. A dedicated Powerstone is only useful for powering spells that are enchanted onto the item it is part of. A mage cannot use the stone at double efficiency (or any efficiency) just because he's casting spells through the item it's in, even if the item does have a Staff spell on it. The stone is
dedicated to the spells enchanted onto the item.
If you want to make Staves and Powerstones much more powerful, you are of course free to rule that they work as you assumed. But Kromm has gone to the effort (several times) of trying to clarify the original intent of the phrase in question, and above is his "official" interpretation.

arnej
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:45 PM   #6
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

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Originally Posted by arnej View Post
This confusion has been popping up about this particular phrasing for over a decade. Here's the clarification from kromm (dated 2003)

Dr. Kromm specifically stated (and was archived in Kromm Notes II) that Dedicated and Exclusive Powerstones can only be used to power spells enchanted onto an item. Yes, this is apparently an area where Magic has been superseeded. I read it the same way you did at first (and second) pass.

------------------------------------------------
d) If a staff with the Staff spell on it has a dedicated powerstone imbedded in it (and nothing else), does this allow the user to cast spells such as Deathtouch, Lightning, (heck even History or Analyze Magic) through the staff and power it with the stone?

No. A dedicated Powerstone is only useful for powering spells that are enchanted onto the item it is part of. A mage cannot use the stone at double efficiency (or any efficiency) just because he's casting spells through the item it's in, even if the item does have a Staff spell on it. The stone is
dedicated to the spells enchanted onto the item.
If you want to make Staves and Powerstones much more powerful, you are of course free to rule that they work as you assumed. But Kromm has gone to the effort (several times) of trying to clarify the original intent of the phrase in question, and above is his "official" interpretation.

arnej
You shouldn't quote old 3e rules when talking about 4e.

Exclusive Powerstones are different from Dedicated Powerstones.
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

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Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
You shouldn't quote old 3e rules when talking about 4e.
Even when the 4e rules contain the exact same phrasing as the 3e rules? Why should we assume that Kromm's ruling on that phrasing changed when the text didn't?

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Exclusive Powerstones are different from Dedicated Powerstones.
Thank heaven no one in this thread has been talking about Exclusive Powerstones then, as that could get quite confusing.

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Old 10-28-2010, 03:35 PM   #8
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

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Even when the 4e rules contain the exact same phrasing as the 3e rules?
It does not contain the exact same phrasing, though it is close.

3e: "Its energy may be tapped by the item's user - but only to power the spells cast by or through that item." p.47 Magic for 3e

4e: "The item’s user may tap its energy – but only to power the spells cast by or through that item." p.70 Magic for 4e

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Originally Posted by arnej View Post
Why should we assume that Kromm's ruling on that phrasing changed when the text didn't?
Kromm's rulings for 3e are just that, 3e rulings, they are completely irrelevant to 4e, especially when they are clearly out of genre bad rulings like that one. *grin*

There is nothing in the spell which says Dedicated Staff Powerstones can't be used to power spells cast through staffs, ruling otherwise hamstrings the primary usefulness of making a dedicated stone.
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Old 10-28-2010, 03:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

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Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
Kromm's rulings for 3e are just that, 3e rulings, they are completely irrelevant to 4e, especially when they are clearly out of genre bad rulings like that one. *grin*
Sorry? Which genre has powerstones?

It sounds like you disagree with Kromm on this one. That's fine - I was just offering the OP the history of the discussion of that confusing wording and the intent of the author.

If you want to argue that the intent of the author has somehow changed when the books got a 4e stamped on them, go ahead, although I think it unlikely.

arnej

Last edited by arnej; 10-28-2010 at 11:58 PM. Reason: redacted a bad example
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Magic] Casting trought item with powerstone

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Originally Posted by arnej View Post
Sorry? Which genre has powerstones?
The genre of magic which has powered Staffs and Wands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnej View Post
It sounds like you disagree with Kromm on this one. That's fine - I was just offering the OP the history of the discussion of that confusing wording and the intent of the author.
Kromm wasn't the author for Magic, and the 4e editing of it was a hack job.
*badumpbump*

If Kromm had written or edited Magic it would be a much better book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnej View Post
If you want to argue that the intent of the author has somehow changed when the books got a 4e stamped on them, go ahead, although I think it unlikely.
4e got rid of a lot of the bad assumptions and built in rulings from 3e, it was a clean slate.
Digging up bad 3e rulings and using them to taint 4e doesn't do us any favors.

Kromm himself has said not to use any of his 3e rulings for 4e, so you can take it up with him.
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