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Old 09-26-2010, 03:53 PM   #21
Andygal
 
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Default Re: In Nomine Second Edition: What have we learned?

For Jordi's dissonance conditions, something like "Do not promote human well-being at the expense of non-human animals.".

(and I'm Canadian, with a British grandmother, I wander back and forth between British and American spellings at random with a lot of words. Although the words "colour", "honour" and "neighbour" have "u"s and nobody is going to convince me differently.)
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Last edited by Andygal; 09-26-2010 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:39 PM   #22
JCD
 
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Default Re: In Nomine Second Edition: What have we learned?

I am trying very hard to see how IN combat is particularly egregious compared to, oh, any version of D&D, Shadowrun, Champions, GURPS, MERPS, etc.

Perhaps in layout and sprinkling a handful of weapons in 3 different books, but besides that...

***

So, Andy, you are saying 'u' has honour?
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:02 AM   #23
Elberon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
While I agree that the d666 is a flawed mechanic, I don't think that making In Nomine more like GURPS is a good idea. There's already a perfectly good "GURPS In Nomine" product for that.
<just got to here in the thread, so sorry if this has been covered already later on>

Personally getting a green light to use the new world of darkness mechanics rules would be one way to close the power difference and the resonances in one fell swoop.

If you want a more cinematic game then getting SJ to let her Evilness to do a Fate 3.0 version would probably rock more though.

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Old 09-27-2010, 05:25 AM   #24
Jennifer
 
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Default Re: In Nomine Second Edition: What have we learned?

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Originally Posted by Elberon View Post
If you want a more cinematic game then getting SJ to let her Evilness to do a Fate 3.0 version would probably rock more though.
I've actually been poking at that one myself, and Em Dresner has the bones of a conversion up somewhere - link when I'm not in a hurry to get to work.
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:35 AM   #25
Elberon
 
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I've actually been poking at that one myself, and Em Dresner has the bones of a conversion up somewhere - link when I'm not in a hurry to get to work.
Yeah, saw it linked here a while ago. but a total root and branch re-write rather than conversion...

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Old 09-27-2010, 06:58 AM   #26
Rocket Man
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Default Re: In Nomine Second Edition: What have we learned?

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Originally Posted by JCD View Post
I am trying very hard to see how IN combat is particularly egregious compared to, oh, any version of D&D, Shadowrun, Champions, GURPS, MERPS, etc.

Perhaps in layout and sprinkling a handful of weapons in 3 different books, but besides that...

***
The thing I've heard from some players (besides wanting more combat options) is that the damages can be surprisingly low.

A celestial with supernaturally-high strength (+1), heavy gloves (+1) and high Fighting skill (+1) who throws a punch (-3) basically does the CD in damage. That takes at least three or four punches to knock out a relatively ordinary human, from an angel or demon whose strength matches or exceeds the strongest humans to ever live.

Pick up a sword instead (+4 Power and +1 each from high Strength and Fighting), and Mr. Celestial now does 7-12 Body hits per successful swing ... pretty good in my book, but it still takes two to three swings to put down a human with, say, 20 Body hits. That again seems odd to some who built an angelic Hercules.

To be honest, this has never really bothered me, since I consider it a constraint on outright munchkinism. But it can slow down a fight sometimes, especially when facing very durable opponents, in a situation where your main options to whittle them down may be fists, feet and NC:Claws.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:35 AM   #27
JCD
 
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Default Re: In Nomine Second Edition: What have we learned?

Ah. I was misreading his statement then. I thought he was saying that it was a slog because the rules were too complicated, though it seems Jennifer said something along those lines when refering to the advanced turn breakdown (I don't find it particularly egregious, but I'm easy)

Yes. I totally agree. It seems odd that a Cherub who can lift the back end of a Volkswagon would not be able to smack down a human in very short order.

(minor quibble: you do not get a +1 from simply hitting with heavy gloves IIRC. The gloves are to protect your hands from the damage they are about to apply to someone else. The designers assumed that if your muscles are strong enough to punch through walls, it does not give you the bone or muscle density to protect you from that action. The max is +2 for fighting skill and strength.)
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:55 AM   #28
Rocket Man
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Originally Posted by JCD View Post
(minor quibble: you do not get a +1 from simply hitting with heavy gloves IIRC. The gloves are to protect your hands from the damage they are about to apply to someone else. The designers assumed that if your muscles are strong enough to punch through walls, it does not give you the bone or muscle density to protect you from that action. The max is +2 for fighting skill and strength.)
Minor counter-quibble: The "Contact Weapons" chart on pg. 65 (first printing) says a high skill level and some kind of protection such as heavy boots or gloves each add 1 point to the kick or punch, and that high strength also adds 1. Hence, my +3.
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
--Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor

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Old 09-27-2010, 03:08 PM   #29
Archangel Beth
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Default Re: In Nomine Second Edition: What have we learned?

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I'd make sure that the core book was sensibly arranged,
That's one that makes me go, "Well, duh!!!!!!11!!eleventy-one!" O:>

The question does get raised as to what "sensibly arranged" looks like. GURPS In Nomine is one stab at a more sensible arrangement. (I've also got an unpublished IN Lite/Soldiers document that attempts sense and sensibility in arrangements, but that's in the "would enough people buy this to justify anyone working on it" category, alas. And it has a fair amount of "looks like GIN" to it, of course.)

Note: this is all still a thought exercise.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: In Nomine Second Edition: What have we learned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
I am trying very hard to see how IN combat is particularly egregious compared to, oh, any version of D&D, Shadowrun, Champions, GURPS, MERPS, etc.

Perhaps in layout and sprinkling a handful of weapons in 3 different books, but besides that...
It's just that there are such wild variances. One PC can have 100+ Body hits while another might have less than 20.

Plus imagine maxed stat + Skill/6 + Relic/6 for damage.
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