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Old 09-06-2010, 04:04 PM   #1
jacobmuller
 
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Default Blunt Trauma and Skulls

This is probably another of my dumb questions but the answer ain't popped into my head yet (oh, found half of it on a re-read:)
Target falls onto his skull. His helmet is DR16 and he suffers 15 damage from the fall. That's 3 points of Blunt Trauma. His innate skull DR stops 2 points. Am I wrong to apply the Brain injury wound multiplier to the remaining damage? (B399 "Exception: None of these effects apply to toxic damage.")

If he has an armoured skull, DR16, that would be innate DR and block all damage, yes?
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:04 PM   #2
Dinadon
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
This is probably another of my dumb questions but the answer ain't popped into my head yet (oh, found half of it on a re-read:)
Target falls onto his skull. His helmet is DR16 and he suffers 15 damage from the fall. That's 3 points of Blunt Trauma. His innate skull DR stops 2 points. Am I wrong to apply the Brain injury wound multiplier to the remaining damage? (B399 "Exception: None of these effects apply to toxic damage.")
You want B379 where Blunt Trauma is described. Specifically the fact where it is Injury, not Damage and thus has no wounding modifier. Ever.

Quote:
If he has an armoured skull, DR16, that would be innate DR and block all damage, yes?
Yes.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:12 AM   #3
Ts_
 
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Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Me = confused.

If the blunt trauma is Injury and not damage, why would it be stopped by the skull's DR 2?

More general question: Can someone point me to a resource on how stacking DR and blunt trauma interact? My friend with the many colored letters didn't find anything.

IMHO:
Considering how weirdly blunt trauma behaves when suddenly a single point of damage penetrates (damage 100 vs DR 100 does 20 injury, but damage 101 vs DR 100 does 1 injury ...), I think you would always have to consider the entire DR and not process it layerwise. (Otherwise DR 1+1+1+1+1 is significantly better than DR 5, because it will never cause blunt trauma.)

So, this is a case of damage 15 vs DR 16 (outside, blunt trauma) + 2 (inside, no blunt trauma). What happens?

Other curious cases:
* Damage 20 vs DR 18 (outside, blunt trauma) + 2 (inside, no blunt trauma).
* Reverse layering.

4 injury because 20 damage got stopped?
3 injury, because 20 damage got stopped, but only up to 18 can cause blunt trauma.
2 injury, because 20 damage got stopped, causing 4 blunt trauma, 2 of which are somehow counted against the no-blunt-trauma DR?
1 injury, because 20 damage got stopped, only 18 caused blunt trauma for 3 injury, which was reduced by the 2 DR.
0 injury, because the DR 18 was penetrated, and the remaining 2 damage wasn't enough to cause blunt trauma, and it was stoppped by no-blunt-trauma armor anyway.
-1 injury ... wait.

Any insights?

Thanks!
Ts
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:43 AM   #4
Dinadon
 
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Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ts_ View Post
Me = confused.

If the blunt trauma is Injury and not damage, why would it be stopped by the skull's DR 2?
It shouldn't, I forgot to catch that.

Quote:
IMHO:
Considering how weirdly blunt trauma behaves when suddenly a single point of damage penetrates (damage 100 vs DR 100 does 20 injury, but damage 101 vs DR 100 does 1 injury ...), I think you would always have to consider the entire DR and not process it layerwise. (Otherwise DR 1+1+1+1+1 is significantly better than DR 5, because it will never cause blunt trauma.)
I don't think 5 individual points of flexible armor is meant to be treated differently to a single DR 5 piece. However, you do could end up with similar if you space non-flexible DR in-between your flexible layers, say DR 4+1+4+1+4 with the first layer being flexible and then alternating. Whether that works I'm not certain.

With the DR 100 issue, I view it as more of a quirk than a problem. Remember, that's penetrating damage and so will be multiplied by a Wounding Modifier. Each point of damage above the DR adds to the total, so with DR 100 being hit by 120 damage will be at least as bad, and at that high a value that isn't an unreasonable deviation from a damage roll. Taking exactly one point more will most likely be an occasional annoyance. Still, it's a good incentive to switch to something less flexible.

The real issue is when you have a flexible DR 100 over a rigid DR 100, it's harder to see how Blunt Trauma could get through.

So I'll just reiterate your last question, any insights?
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:18 AM   #5
hal
 
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Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
This is probably another of my dumb questions but the answer ain't popped into my head yet (oh, found half of it on a re-read:)
Target falls onto his skull. His helmet is DR16 and he suffers 15 damage from the fall. That's 3 points of Blunt Trauma. His innate skull DR stops 2 points. Am I wrong to apply the Brain injury wound multiplier to the remaining damage? (B399 "Exception: None of these effects apply to toxic damage.")

If he has an armoured skull, DR16, that would be innate DR and block all damage, yes?
Pertinent quote:

Falls and Armor: All armor, flexible or not (but not innate DR), counts as
“flexible” for the purpose of calculating blunt trauma from falling damage.
Thus, even if the victim has enough armor DR to stop the falling damage,
he suffers 1 HP of injury per 5 points of falling damage. See Flexible Armor
and Blunt Trauma (p. 379).


So, to answer your question - you applied the correct rules, and the fact that the person took 15 points of damage, stopped by DR 16, will result in 3 points blunt trauma, for which 2 will be stopped by the skull's innate DR of 2, leaving a total of 1 point that gets through. Damage to the skull is multiplied by a x4 modifier unless it is toxic damage, which collision damage is not. So, net result, is 4 points of damage when all is said and done.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:25 AM   #6
Dinadon
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
Pertinent quote:

Falls and Armor: All armor, flexible or not (but not innate DR), counts as
“flexible” for the purpose of calculating blunt trauma from falling damage.
Thus, even if the victim has enough armor DR to stop the falling damage,
he suffers 1 HP of injury per 5 points of falling damage. See Flexible Armor
and Blunt Trauma (p. 379).


So, to answer your question - you applied the correct rules, and the fact that the person took 15 points of damage, stopped by DR 16, will result in 3 points blunt trauma, for which 2 will be stopped by the skull's innate DR of 2, leaving a total of 1 point that gets through. Damage to the skull is multiplied by a x4 modifier unless it is toxic damage, which collision damage is not. So, net result, is 4 points of damage when all is said and done.
Umm, no. Did you skim the last few posts?
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:56 AM   #7
Langy
 
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Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
This is probably another of my dumb questions but the answer ain't popped into my head yet (oh, found half of it on a re-read:)
Target falls onto his skull. His helmet is DR16 and he suffers 15 damage from the fall. That's 3 points of Blunt Trauma. His innate skull DR stops 2 points. Am I wrong to apply the Brain injury wound multiplier to the remaining damage? (B399 "Exception: None of these effects apply to toxic damage.")

If he has an armoured skull, DR16, that would be innate DR and block all damage, yes?
Innate DR doesn't block blunt trauma (from falls, anyways - if it isn't flexible/tough skin it still blocks normal blunt trauma, though not in a 1-to-1 fashion).

If the target has a DR16 non-flexible helmet and a DR 2 skull and he took 15 damage from the fall, he'd suffer 3 points of Blunt Trauma injury.

On the other hand, if he was shot in the head for 15 damage, he wouldn't be injured at all. However, if he had 14 flexible DR and his normal 2 skull DR and was shot in the head for 15 points of damage, he would suffer only 2 points of blunt trauma injury (2 points of damage would be canceled by his non-flexible skull DR, leaving 13 points of damage, and the blunt trauma damage would be 13/5 round down, or 2).
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:08 AM   #8
Mailanka
 
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Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
So, to answer your question - you applied the correct rules, and the fact that the person took 15 points of damage, stopped by DR 16, will result in 3 points blunt trauma, for which 2 will be stopped by the skull's innate DR of 2, leaving a total of 1 point that gets through. Damage to the skull is multiplied by a x4 modifier unless it is toxic damage, which collision damage is not. So, net result, is 4 points of damage when all is said and done.
He takes 15 points of Damage which is stopped by his DR of 18 (DR 16 from Helmet + DR 2 from skull), and three points of blunt trauma would go through.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:28 AM   #9
hal
 
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Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
He takes 15 points of Damage which is stopped by his DR of 18 (DR 16 from Helmet + DR 2 from skull), and three points of blunt trauma would go through.
As I read it?

15 points of Damage is LESS than the DR 16 of the Helmet, and thus, would normally be stopped. However, of those 15 points, due to the nature of the "trauma" involved (ie falling damage), the rules specify that instead of 1 point per 10 being blunt trauma damage, it becomes one in five. Normally, ALL of the damage is stopped by the helmet with the DR from the skull not taken into play. Note that the Skull is NOT included in the DR from blunt force trauma from falls - and normally would not have been an issue in protecting the skull from damage that never would have penetrated the helmet. However, points DID penetrate the helmet, and thus, the skull's DR would come into play (finally).

Last edited by hal; 09-07-2010 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Why I wrote "One in three" I don't know, it is "one in five" sheesh!
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:29 AM   #10
hal
 
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Default Re: Blunt Trauma and Skulls

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Originally Posted by Dinadon View Post
Umm, no. Did you skim the last few posts?
Um, yes I did. And no, I do not agree with the posts ;)
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