Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-08-2013, 07:32 AM   #31
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Observation is scouting for criminal, espionage, military, or police purposes; it's for spotting guards, security, and counter-observers, and concealed vehicles and strongpoints.
I would love to hear more detail on use of this skill. I'm never sure how much I should focus on the "without letting others know that you are watching" part of the skill description on 211.
Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:32 AM   #32
Mr_Sandman
 
Mr_Sandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

It seems to me that the "military scrounging" as depicted in movies would not just use scrounging skill. It might start with a scrounging roll, with a complimentary roll on something like soldier or administration, to locate the item. Then any number of social skills could be used to acquire it, administration, diplomacy, fast-talk, gambling, intimidation, merchant, etc. If it is a complicated process, it might take using a number of these skills in succession, or using one or more of them as complimentary skills to another.
Mr_Sandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:45 AM   #33
fifiste
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Estonia
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
EDIT: I have Absent Minded, definitely the full -15 point version. When I have something in my hand/hands and my attention gets focused on something else and I need a free hand, I literally have no concious awareness of the process of freeing up the hand.
I have lost items for good this way, once I lit a fire in my fireplace during some other chores. I'm rather sure I burned my oven mittens as a fire-starter as they have been never seen since that day.
fifiste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 09:48 AM   #34
Peter Knutsen
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sense of Duty (Kittens) View Post
Scrounging is a cheap skill, but it does not seem to have much that is not covered by other Per skills. When searching corpses for goods is a Scrounging or Search rool necessary to make sure you got everything? What skill is the guy who routinely checks under vending machines for change employing? Scrounging? Observation? Urban Survival?

Scrounging does not seem to be a useful investment of points at all.
Scrounging is the MacGyver skill. It's not everything MacGyver does, but it's the basis for at least 85% of everything he does.



More generally, whatever kind of Search skill I end up including in Sagatafl (I doubt I'll have separate Searching and Scrounging ones), it'll be more about searching quickly and efficiently (because of having established systematic methods), and perhaps being able to routinely overcome one's natural squeamishness at interacting with corpses and slimy stuff and so on, and maybe sticking one's hand into strange places in such a way as to minimize the risk of scraping against rusty bits of iron.

No such skill lets you do anything you flat out wouldn't be able to do without it. They (or it) just lets you do it a lot faster, and a lot safer, and in a fashion that's a lot less impeded by problems and hurdles.
Peter Knutsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 09:50 AM   #35
Peter Knutsen
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman View Post
It seems to me that the "military scrounging" as depicted in movies would not just use scrounging skill. It might start with a scrounging roll, with a complimentary roll on something like soldier or administration, to locate the item. Then any number of social skills could be used to acquire it, administration, diplomacy, fast-talk, gambling, intimidation, merchant, etc. If it is a complicated process, it might take using a number of these skills in succession, or using one or more of them as complimentary skills to another.
Yes indeed. I don't think the military thing is a good illustration of the intended usage of GURPS' Scrounging skill.
Peter Knutsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 11:39 AM   #36
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnome View Post

I would love to hear more detail on use of this skill. I'm never sure how much I should focus on the "without letting others know that you are watching" part of the skill description on 211.
Threads about that abound . . . I'm hoping somebody bookmarked a few (I didn't!). Here's a summary:

Observation doesn't replace Camouflage, Shadowing, or Stealth, ever. If you don't want to be seen, you also need a skill suitable to the situation. What the "not letting others know" part of the Observation skill specifically means is that the act of using the skill doesn't give away the game on its own – that is, the skill teaches you how not to poke your telescope lens out the window, catch the light on your binoculars, or lean so far out of your hiding place that somebody sees you there. The skill doesn't teach you how to hide in the first place. Without Observation, the GM has carte blanche to say that your great Camouflage, Shadowing, or Stealth roll is for naught, because you're doing something dumb to mess with it. However, if all you have is Observation, "not letting others know" can certainly cover using a telescope or a shotgun mic from so far away that nobody can make the Vision roll to see you anyway.

In actual play, the way it works is that you declare what you're doing to be sneaky and then roll normally for that: NPC's Vision or Hearing vs. your Stealth, his Vision at -10 because you're 100 yards away and not in plain sight, his own Observation vs. your Camouflage because you're in the bushes, or whatever. If you're not detected, go ahead and use Observation. The act of using that skill never allows a new roll for detection, forces a new role for hiding, or compromises your old roll for hiding. However, you cannot say, "I have Observation, and it says it's about not letting others know, so I'm going to use it instead of Stealth to hide." That might let you hide your telescope, but you'll be standing in plain sight right behind it . . .

The one exception is in direct observer vs. observer contests. In that case, the GM might prefer not to roll two Quick Contests of (say) Stealth vs. Observation, because turning four margins of success into two margins of victory, and then comparing two margins of victory to get one margin of victory, is painful on the brain. Settling matters as a Quick Contest of Observation, letting a concealment skill act as complementary to each, is good enough.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 02:32 PM   #37
Rocket Man
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
In actual play, the way it works is that you declare what you're doing to be sneaky and then roll normally for that: NPC's Vision or Hearing vs. your Stealth, his Vision at -10 because you're 100 yards away and not in plain sight, his own Observation vs. your Camouflage because you're in the bushes, or whatever. If you're not detected, go ahead and use Observation.
For a real-life example, when I was covering the city council for a newspaper in Kansas, the council would sometimes go into closed door session. The hall outside was narrow and doubled as a waiting area for the planning office, with two modestly-comfortable chairs just outside the door. In game terms, I used Acting to seem to be cat-napping in one of the chairs (not unexpected, it was mid-day and often fairly warm) and then Observation to pick up pieces of the conversation behind the door.
__________________
“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking”
--Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor

Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"
Rocket Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 04:06 PM   #38
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

I'd think Observation also covers the times you're not hidden, as Rocket Man describes. You know tactics to keep out of sight while Observing in the first place -- but when you're not out of sight, you also know how to Observe without obviously focusing and staring at your target of interest, taking notes in your little notepad, glancing at your watch every time security guard walks by, and all that, when you "case the joint".

Acting skill alone means you fool people into thinking you're just another shopper/tourist/cubicle dweller, but you won't learn anything just by hanging around and Acting. Observation lets gather information while you avoid attention-getting, out-of-character actions that would blow your Acting role and roll, much as it lets you not do stupid things to obviate your Stealth/Camo roll.
Anaraxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 04:18 PM   #39
roguebfl
Dog of Lysdexics
 
roguebfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

Tossing a room
__________________
Rogue the Bronze Firelizard
Gerald Grenier, Jr. Hail Eris!
Rogue's Weyr
roguebfl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 01:44 PM   #40
fifiste
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Estonia
Default Re: When does one use Scrounging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
I'd think Observation also covers the times you're not hidden, as Rocket Man describes. You know tactics to keep out of sight while Observing in the first place -- but when you're not out of sight, you also know how to Observe without obviously focusing and staring at your target of interest, taking notes in your little notepad, glancing at your watch every time security guard walks by, and all that, when you "case the joint".

Acting skill alone means you fool people into thinking you're just another shopper/tourist/cubicle dweller, but you won't learn anything just by hanging around and Acting. Observation lets gather information while you avoid attention-getting, out-of-character actions that would blow your Acting role and roll, much as it lets you not do stupid things to obviate your Stealth/Camo roll.
So when I scout around in somekind of office then I'd need a acting roll to look like a delivery boy etc. (someone who has a reason to be there) AND an observation roll not to look like a delivery boy who is taking pictures of your security cameras :D

In case I'm scouting a street surrounding a open air restaurant I probably wont need an acting roll because well people just welcome to sit down there and order stuff - but I would need an observation roll for you know again not to be obviously looking at sensitive stuff. *

It greatly makes sense. Thank you was kind of twisting my brain actually without it.


Talking 'bout restaurants and sensitive stuff and what not made me somehow think that lots of pervy guys might have a point or at least improved default for peep-tommery/tom-peepery, y'know to "observe" themselves some T&A of that waitress etc.
Lots of them obviously don't :D
fifiste is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kromm explanation

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.