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Old 09-01-2010, 03:14 PM   #51
ericbsmith
 
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
With the Innkeeper, Justicar, and Ninja in there, you are 100% welcome to stealing my Mystic Knight writeup if you like it and including in your article.

I'd really like it if you did (or wrote up your own if you don't like my take :D) because my inner completest is nagging me about it.
I was going to ask you about that, because I wanted to get it done but just hadn't looked at it yet (busy life... if things don't slow down sometime for me I'll be too busy for my own funeral...).
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:52 AM   #52
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Steal away: modify, mutilate, use whole cloth, whatever.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:40 PM   #53
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Rounds in 1st ed. D&D were a minute.

6 seconds was called a "segment" and it wasn't long enough to make an attack.

One round was an abstraction of many blows exchanged and presumably included many parries, feints, grazes, etc.
Yeah, I was gonna say... Page 61 of the DMG makes this clear, by way of introducing a short Gygax essay as to why it is undesirable to have detail in combat, and which highlights that Gygax and the overwhelming majority of players were on a different page: "As hit points dwindle, [PCs] can opt to break off the encounter and attempt to flee." I doubt this has happened in more than about 0.1% of AD&D combats.

Anyway, derail aside, the lower-level DF is an excellent notion. 250-point characters always feel to me like about what 4th- to 7th level AD&D characters did. Good for delving, but not that good for heroes at the beginning of their career, which can also be fun.
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:15 AM   #54
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

I've just updated the article and data file to include the Mystic Knight template, based largely but not wholly on Bruno's version. The zip file for GCA also includes the new GURPS Dungeon Fantasy - Pyramid.gdf file which is where I have put the two current templates from Pyramid and plan to place any further DF related goodness from Pyramid in the future.

Also just uploaded a PDF Printable Version of the article.
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:41 PM   #55
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
I've just updated the article and data file to include the Mystic Knight template, based largely but not wholly on Bruno's version. The zip file for GCA also includes the new GURPS Dungeon Fantasy - Pyramid.gdf file which is where I have put the two current templates from Pyramid and plan to place any further DF related goodness from Pyramid in the future.

Also just uploaded a PDF Printable Version of the article.
After giving your version of the Mystic Knight on the cheap, I have something to add: On the 100 point version, that has only 9 points in Imbuement Skills, you should state that it has a minimum of 4 Imbuement Skills. The 150 point version should only have IMHO 15 points in Imbuement Skills (minimum 7 skills) and add those 5 points into the advantage section. There are about the same number of Imbue 1 and Imbue 2 skills, but Imbue 3 skills represent about half the number of Imbuement Skills. The lesser templates don't necessasilly have access to Imbue 3, so reducing the number of required skills is a big plus.
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:49 AM   #56
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
After giving your version of the Mystic Knight on the cheap, I have something to add: On the 100 point version, that has only 9 points in Imbuement Skills, you should state that it has a minimum of 4 Imbuement Skills. The 150 point version should only have IMHO 15 points in Imbuement Skills (minimum 7 skills) and add those 5 points into the advantage section. There are about the same number of Imbue 1 and Imbue 2 skills, but Imbue 3 skills represent about half the number of Imbuement Skills. The lesser templates don't necessasilly have access to Imbue 3, so reducing the number of required skills is a big plus.
That actually sounds somewhat reasonable. In fact, the "minimum 4 skills" is how I have the GCA data file set up (well, min 5) for the one template. I may wind up making that change.


I also just updated the webpage (but not the PDF) with preliminary versions of the 4 templates from DF9: Summoners. I haven't thoroughly checked them yet, nor have I added them to the GCA data file; in the past, I usually create the GCA template, then run it to check my changes, and I'll probably do that again this time.

At some point in the coming week I'll probably get the data file updated, however I welcome any input on these templates. Because of the unique design of these templates the cut-downs were considerably harder. They are considerably more advantage heavy, especially the Shaman, which required some different design thoughts than most of the other templates.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:39 AM   #57
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

I've now updated the article, PDF, and GCA4 data file with everything you need to create Summoners on the Cheap. See the first post for links.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:54 PM   #58
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by Evil Roy Slade View Post
Yeah, I was gonna say... Page 61 of the DMG makes this clear, by way of introducing a short Gygax essay as to why it is undesirable to have detail in combat, and which highlights that Gygax and the overwhelming majority of players were on a different page: "As hit points dwindle, [PCs] can opt to break off the encounter and attempt to flee." I doubt this has happened in more than about 0.1% of AD&D combats.

Anyway, derail aside, the lower-level DF is an excellent notion. 250-point characters always feel to me like about what 4th- to 7th level AD&D characters did. Good for delving, but not that good for heroes at the beginning of their career, which can also be fun.
IMHO up to a point the higher levels of AD&D are better simulated via cinematic then going nuts with the point totals but past that point you are going to have to let the point total increase.

This brings up another issue--how much of the character's power is tied to the world rather than to themselves? When I converted Lina Inverse I found it saner to treat her spells per the Ritual Magic system then build them piecemeal and this makes her only 421 points.

If you go back to the DMG1 it is made quite clear that spell power does not come from the mage but rather from the Inner and Outer Planes. Cut that off (as in Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits or Dragon 100's "City Beyond the Gate") and most classes are in a world of hurt: magical abilities will work poorly if at all and spells are majorly crippled or worse work in strange and bizarre ways.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:23 AM   #59
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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As a side note, you COULD create a THAC0 matrix for GURPS to reduce to-hit to a single die roll taking into account the victims defense and defense options. You'd probably need %ile dice to roll on it though, so I'm not sure it would simplify anything.
Hero System makes do with a single 3d6 roll. I think it's 11+offence bonus-defence bonus, and if you're lower than or equal to, it's a hit.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:55 PM   #60
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
IMHO up to a point the higher levels of AD&D are better simulated via cinematic then going nuts with the point totals but past that point you are going to have to let the point total increase.

This brings up another issue--how much of the character's power is tied to the world rather than to themselves? When I converted Lina Inverse I found it saner to treat her spells per the Ritual Magic system then build them piecemeal and this makes her only 421 points.

If you go back to the DMG1 it is made quite clear that spell power does not come from the mage but rather from the Inner and Outer Planes. Cut that off (as in Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits or Dragon 100's "City Beyond the Gate") and most classes are in a world of hurt: magical abilities will work poorly if at all and spells are majorly crippled or worse work in strange and bizarre ways.
This is a suggestion I really like. I've been compulsively fiddling with the magic system for a while now, mostly transforming spells into powers, while eying the Ritual Magic system and wishing I could do more with it. Are there rules for developing new Rituals, or is that just a matter of GM fiat?
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