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Old 04-19-2010, 04:54 PM   #21
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Presumably some combination of Evaluate, Wait, and Feint? Not saying I agree, but it would seem that if you're not frantically going at the guy like a squirrel on speed, there's got to be SOME level of dancing around involved.
Sure, but as you well know six seconds can be a long time in a fight (especially in an armed mortal fight). Trying to visualize D&D combat has always hurt my brain.

EDIT: At any rate I do think skill 12 makes sense if you want to capture that old school 1st level feel, IMO.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Sure, but as you well know six seconds can be a long time in a fight (especially in an armed mortal fight). Trying to visualize D&D combat has always hurt my brain.

EDIT: At any rate I do think skill 12 makes sense if you want to capture that old school 1st level feel, IMO.
I agree AD&D combat is hard to understand. But I really do like the idea of low level starting characters, I think they grow on you as you advance in levels. I think the 250 points characters are too high level to start for me. Anyway, 12 seems like a fair skill level.

Last edited by b-dog; 04-19-2010 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:00 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Hmmm, for 150pts, assuming the same 50pts of disads, have no difficulty making a level 1 knight or swashbuckler without lowering stats

However making a wizard on 150? Oww, that is tough . . . wizards need lots of spells and high magery, so cant trim a way a huge amount of advantages and skills and still have a wizard
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Hmmm, for 150pts, assuming the same 50pts of disads, have no difficulty making a level 1 knight or swashbuckler without lowering stats
Well, the Knight and Swashbuckler both have 60 points in a general pool for assignable advantages, which makes those two templates by far the easiest to scale back on - you could literally just chuck out those 60 points and start out at 190 points without seriously hampering either template.

In fact, for the scaled back versions I wrote up I did cut back on those assignable advantage points for those two templates. I also scaled back their attributes, however if you look at the template's advantage list you'll notice that attribute bonuses are one of the things you can buy with the assignable advantage points, meaning you could just buy the attributes back up. Or you can choose to spend the points on other advantages.

Other templates are much more tightly built, with fewer points allocated to general advantage pools, and making them much tougher to easily scale back.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:24 AM   #25
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Eric, just wanted to go out of my way to say that this is really quite wonderful. I'll probably give my players 250 points still, but these will be there for those who want the more expensive races or to multi-class.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:52 AM   #26
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Excellent article Eric.

Just curious. if i were to apply those templates to a Banestorm campaign, are there any trait deletions in it to make it incompatible with the Banestorm, Magic and/or Fantasy .gdfs?
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:49 AM   #27
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Since they are both supposed to represent six seconds of actual time, the alternative tends to hurt my head. What's D&D guy actual doing during all that time anyway.
Often taking a Move to go with his Attack, along with various other things that were Free actions at the time and for the system.

Saying that D&D 1e was "supposed to be 6 seconds of actual time" assumes that the designers had a lot of interest in actually tying it to real time. They didn't. They provided some vague notes about real world units, but this is from the era of RPGs where Turns and Rounds were important game mechanics and distance moved depended on if there was a roof over your head or not (and oh gosh, AD&D is where you got intitiative re-rolled every turn and it mattered which weapon you were using and what spell you were casting as it modified initiative and aaaugh the dice, the dice!).

Yeah.

GURPS is explicitly tied and tethered to real world units. This was a New Idea for most gamers when GURPS came out - and frankly is still a bit of a radical concept when you consider the White Wolf system(s) prefer time units based on dramatic rhythm rather than actual time.



Anyways, I think I've derailed Eric's thread long enough.
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:31 AM   #28
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by Captain-Captain View Post
Excellent article Eric.

Just curious. if i were to apply those templates to a Banestorm campaign, are there any trait deletions in it to make it incompatible with the Banestorm, Magic and/or Fantasy .gdfs?
No, but many of the esoteric abilities used in these templates require that you load the DF1 data file - all the Holy/Druidic spells, Chi/Holy/Druidic abilities, etc. are defined in the DF1 data file. The DF1 file itself doesn't include any deletions either, though it does create many duplicate traits.
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Last edited by ericbsmith; 04-20-2010 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:16 AM   #29
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Bard 150 pts version. DX 10, HT 11. Basic Speed 6.00 [5] Basic move 6 [0].

Should be Basic Speed 6.00 [15], shouldn't it?

The default Basic Speed is 5.25 with those attributes. 15 pts needed to get it to 6.00.
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:48 AM   #30
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Captain-Captain, you must be looking at the wrong template or something. Only two templates have Basic Speed 6.00 [5] and neither one is the Bard. The 150 point Bard has Basic Speed 5.00 [-5], Basic Move 5 [0].


P.S. I have done a couple of minor updates to the file, but I'm about 99% sure I didn't touch the Bard templates. I did change the 150 point Barbarian template (I'd actually changed it in the GCA file a while ago, but never updated the HTML document to match - I left IQ at 10 and dropped Outdoorsman by 1, which keeps the disadvantage points a little more reasonable for the Barbarian). I'm also working on a revision with 100 point versions of each of the templates, mostly by cutting the Advantages and a little from the Attributes, but I need to give it another pass yet.
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Last edited by ericbsmith; 04-21-2010 at 02:52 AM.
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