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Old 04-19-2010, 11:17 AM   #11
Humabout
 
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

I'm still in awe of that PDF, Nymdok. I plan on putting it to the test soon in a game i'm GMing.

I like this scaling, too. Gives DF a much larger range.
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:22 AM   #12
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Hmmm, I personally would have tried taking a buzzsaw to skills and 'learnable' advantages first, Ive always imagined level 0 characters as being high stat, low skill types

Probably of course due to that other nameless game
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:32 AM   #13
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Yeah but 1st edition AC 10 in GURPS is just an unmodified average person's dodge of 8, so to get a 50% think of one hit after 6 Attack Maneuvers, you'd need a pretty low skill I think. I suck at probability so I'm not sure how low that actually is.
Well, a D&D "miss" may be (in GURPS) a miss, a successful defense, or a failure to penetrate armor.

The last is the only way that I can reconcile that armor has any significant effect on "to hit" rolls, that armor has no effect on damage, and that weapon skill is based on Strength.
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Well, a D&D "miss" may be (in GURPS) a miss, a successful defense, or a failure to penetrate armor.
Yes, but at AC 10 there is no armor (or effective parry) to worry about so therefore a miss is either a miss or a successful defense. A THAC0 20 character should therefore have a low enough GURPS skill to only be likely to hit in 1 of 6 attacks 1/2 the time against a defense of 8.
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Yes, but at AC 10 there is no armor (or effective parry) to worry about so therefore a miss is either a miss or a successful defense. A THAC0 20 character should therefore have a low enough GURPS skill to only be likely to hit in 1 of 6 attacks 1/2 the time against a defense of 8.
Hmm, perhaps it isn't safe to assume those six seconds convert directly to six Attack maneuvers. Since THAC0/AC doesn't go up with weapon skill in D&D, I assume that a novice must be taking All-Out Defense, Defensive Attack, etc. to compensate for low active defenses.

Or, we can just say that GURPS and D&D aren't directly compatible and not try to match numbers. ;)
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:56 AM   #16
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Yeah but 1st edition AC 10 in GURPS is just an unmodified average person's dodge of 8, so to get a 50% think of one hit after 6 Attack Maneuvers, you'd need a pretty low skill I think. I suck at probability so I'm not sure how low that actually is.
Dodge 8 = 25% chance of dodging = 75% chance of getting hit.

The math on actually HITTING the victim, instead of successfully performing your skill, is

Chance of successfully performing your skill * chance of the victims defense failing

So we're looking for X, where
X * .75 = .5
X * .75 / .75 = .5 / .75 ( Divide both sides by .75 to isolate the x on the left hand side)
X = .5 / .75
X = .66666 repeating which is higher than skill 11 and lower than skill 12.

Go with 11, because I didn't include chance of critically hitting and completely bypassing the victims defense.

That said, I'm not sure AC 10 = Dodge 8. With All Out Defense, Defensive Attacks, and the like as standard combat options, that may be a bit simplistic.

And saying that it's 6 attacks and only one connects is, I agree, a very bad model. The higher rate of attacks for high level characters maps much closer to Rapid Strikes in GURPS than it does to assuming 6 seconds of D&D time is anything like 6 seconds of GURPS time.
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Have you had a chance to try this out in play yet?
Sadly, no. I wrote this up last year and promptly did nothing with Dungeon Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
What about rolling skills back, too?
To scale back to below 150 points you'd almost certainly have to roll skills and advantages back. The 150 point versions I made up are close to even number of points in Attributes, Advantages, and Skills. Removing more points would pretty much require scaling the Ads & Skills back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Hmmm, I personally would have tried taking a buzzsaw to skills and 'learnable' advantages first, Ive always imagined level 0 characters as being high stat, low skill types
The thing is, the Dungeon Fantasy templates are very Attribute heavy to begin with. Each 250 point template has over 150 points in Stats, with the other 150 points split between advantages and skills. This makes Attributes the most obvious place to start cutting. True "0-Level" characters would likely be in the 50 point range, which would be best designed by starting from scratch on the templates rather than trying to scale the 250 point monstrosities back.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

This is very well done. I look forward to trying it when I start another DF campaign. It might be nice to have characters that show respect to the Kobolds.

Dave.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

Quote:
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The higher rate of attacks for high level characters maps much closer to Rapid Strikes in GURPS than it does to assuming 6 seconds of D&D time is anything like 6 seconds of GURPS time.
Since they are both supposed to represent six seconds of actual time, the alternative tends to hurt my head. What's D&D guy actual doing during all that time anyway.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap...

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Since they are both supposed to represent six seconds of actual time, the alternative tends to hurt my head. What's D&D guy actual doing during all that time anyway.
Presumably some combination of Evaluate, Wait, and Feint? Not saying I agree, but it would seem that if you're not frantically going at the guy like a squirrel on speed, there's got to be SOME level of dancing around involved.


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