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Old 04-17-2010, 11:45 PM   #1
Orlin
 
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Default House Rules

I don't know if this has been done before, but I think it would certainly make for an interesting thread. I'm eager to see what some other In Nomine GM's have cooked up for their adventures and campaigns. Whether it's a variant, a revision, or something completely new, I'm interested. As someone who doesn't hold a great deal of experience running the IN system, I don't yet feel "qualified" to begin generating House Rules...but that may not stop me. Currently, I'm trying to find a way to figure in called shots -- but if you've beet me to the punch, have at it!

On a side note, I did find many of the Game Masters Guide variants to be very interesting. If you want to discuss variants that you particularly enjoy, post away.
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Last edited by Orlin; 04-17-2010 at 11:47 PM. Reason: word repetition
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:08 AM   #2
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Default Re: House Rules

You might try this thread for a start, though I'm sure it doesn't exhaust the possibilities: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=62240
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: House Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Man View Post
You might try this thread for a start, though I'm sure it doesn't exhaust the possibilities: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=62240
A very good start! I think I'd like to revamp this thread. Most of the comments regarding the original thread were expressed in one form or another, so I would ask that all comments be reserved for new submissions. If you have a proposed revision to one of these house rules, please feel free to submit it!

As I am attempting to restart the last House Rules thread, I selected all previous submissions from and listed them by their original author. I paraphrased many rules to conserve space, so if I misinterpreted anything, please feel free to notify or clarify as you see fit. If anyone is uncomfortable with me collecting their previous house rule submissions, send me a PM (or simply state a reply) and I will remove them from this thread post-haste. The intention is to promote convenience -- not to offer insult.

From Havard:

1. Vessels use level as charisma bonus. You don’t have to buy charisma separately.

2. All starting characters must have a Role. I don’t bother with levels for Roles, only status.

3. Initiative is determined by rolling 1d6 at the beginning of combat. On his turn, a character performs all his actions regardless of type.

4. Hits recovery is multiplied by relevant forces.

5. Untrained skills can be used at -2. Not all skills can be used untrained.

6. Stun rules (25% loss) are ignored.

From tHEhERETIC:

1. The selection of all Choir (or Band) and Servitor attunements is restricted to the Superior’s list of attunements. A servitor of Michael cannot obtain a Servitor or Choir attunement from Gabriel, and vice versa.

From JCD:

1. Soul hits are determined by calculating the Celestials total forces. A Celestial with 10-forces would lose one force after 10 soul hits and would be soul-killed after 100 hits.

2. All female characters receive a +2 Charisma bonus free of charge. This can be turned away

3. Disturbance is based on a single chart, which is calculated as if everyone [who is Symphonically Aware] possessed 9 Forces, 3 Celestial Forces, and 6 Perception.

4. Detection range on Disturbance is subdivided; a 10 point disturbance has a "Basic Range" of 30 yards (3 Celestial Forces multiplied by 10).

5. Upon suffering a vessel-death, all Celestials have a transition time to reach their Hearts.. After that, Trauma sets in: Malakim are the obvious exception.

6. When a player jumps into a room temperature vessel in a body bag, there is a painful transition time as they 'stoke the furnaces'. Additionally, unless they use this vessel regularly (at least once a week), they are at -1 or -2 on their physical skills, depending on the length of time they have been out of the vessel. It reduces by one every day they actively use it.

From Acolyte:

1. During character creation, Celestials receive x character points for Skills and an additional x character points for Songs, where x is equal to the total Forces of the Celestial. A Celestial with 9 Forces, for example would receive 18 bonus points – 9 are limited to Skills, 9 are limited to Songs.

2. Celestials can perform minor miracles at the cost of 1 Essence – the sort of services provided by Imps and Relievers; if an angel misplaces an object, for example, she can spend 1 Essence to relocate it.

3. Disturbance rules are separated into basic categories: minute, mild, significant, strong, catastrophic, and epic. Modifiers are listed for each category, which can be further modified by other factors, such as distance.

4. No character may obtain a new Force, nor spend more than 9 points to increase his or her characteristics. Forces can be obtained only as rewards from Superiors.

From zogo:

1. Untrained skills default at –0 due to the low odds of success for most target numbers.

2. Celestial Discord doesn't short Essence recovery unless it is a Need.

3. The Small Weapon skill is based on Agility instead of Precision.

From banditangel:

1. Initiative is based on an agility roll; all actions occur on the characters round.

2. Once a PC is vessel killed, she may assume Celestial Form instead of entering trauma.

3. Seraphim resonance is untargeted: while it's up, anything said within earshot of them is evaluated for Truth.

4. Shedim must corrupt every host they possess, regardless of duration (the Shedite player body hops 5-10 times a day, and this is the only thing keeping him in check.)

5. Resonance and Dissonance both have "dramatic flair", making it obvious to nearby celestials when either occurs. For example, a Seraph who lies might cause black tally-marks to sizzle and burn into the air. This is recommended only for games with lighthearted themes.

Corollary from Acolyte:
This house rule is employed only when the character spends essence to pump his resonance.

Special Note from JCD regarding commonly overlooked canon:

When a celestial spends Essence to improve a roll, something “otherworldly” occurs. It might be a flash of diabolical flame, the distant ringing of church bells, or an overpowering smell of incense. The GM decides on the effect, but inevitably some obvious, strange circumstance accompanies the expenditure of Essence to affect a roll. This is often a mundane person’s first hint that his companions are otherworldly.


From BillionSix:

1. A Celestial wouldn't suffers no default penalties for playing an instrument that resonates with her band or choir; any points placed into the instrument skill are doubled.

Corollary from Acolyte: Any Band or Choir can make a resonance roll and add the CD to the TN of the relevant musical instrument or Singing roll.

From Jason:

1. PCs detect disturbance according to convenience.

2. Celestials' true names must be relevantly linked to character concepts and Resources; a character with a name such as “Jason” which translates to “Healer” should have songs of healing, etc.

3. Attach a ”waking world” aspect to Dream Choir attunements. Example: an Ofanite can automatically succeed a move silently roll against a sleeping or daydreaming target.

4. If a Servitor of Gabriel lands a check digit of 6+ on a resonance roll, she receives a cryptic prophecy about the subject of the resonance. If she gets a natural check digit of 6 on a failed resonance roll, she still receives the cryptic prophecy, but has to make a Will roll to resist describing her visions out loud.
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Last edited by Orlin; 04-18-2010 at 04:07 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: House Rules

I haven't playtested this yet, but I'm eager to try:

1. Body, Mind and Soul Hits are calculated as per the Optional Variant Rules in the Game Master's Guide (p. 120.) The character tallies up his character's total forces and adds them to the relevant characteristic (strength, intelligence, or willpower, respectively.) The exceptions are as follows:

a. Every level of vessel multiplies the character's body hits by the vessel level, effectively making Celestial characters much more resilient than the average mortal. Mortals may not purchase levels in vessel.

b. Toughness functions exactly as described in the Game Master's Guide variant, adding +5 to the characters body hits. Toughness can be purchased for 3 points per level by any human, but this must be validated by the GM. Mortals are restricted to 1 level of toughness for every 2 levels of Forces, round down. (i.e. a 5-force human could purchase Toughness/2, a 6-force human could purchase Toughness/3.)

c. Celestials can purchase levels of toughness for 4 points per level, but they are capped at one level for every three forces. Undead humans may retain levels of Toughness that they had in life, but may not purchase additional levels. An undead character who begins play as a Mummy may purchase no more than Toughness/2 at 4 points per level. Immortal characters calculate Toughness after calculating levels in vessel.

2. Spiritual and Mental toughness add +5 per level to Mind and Soul hits, respectively. These advantages may be purchased by Celestials and Mortal alike at a cost of 4 points per level; a character can have 1 level of Spiritual or Mental toughness for every three forces she possesses, round down. Unlike physical toughness, however, these attributes can be purchased at any time, during or after character creation.

3. Mental toughness is renamed "Resolve."

4. Spiritual toughness is renamed "Conviction."

These rules probably wouldn't be suitable for a game where humans were mixed with other Celestials, but in a game that really emphasizes the strength of a Celestial's vessel when compared to that of a human, they might work well.
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Last edited by Orlin; 04-18-2010 at 05:36 PM. Reason: rules written incorrectly
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Old 04-18-2010, 07:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: House Rules

There was an exchange I had with the Acolyte (IIRC) in which on the one hand he discussed his rules for making his vessels much tougher then humans...and on the other lamenting how long combat takes in IN. These two points are related. I believe the adjustments you are making will make combat even between Celestials VERY long.

Case in point. My Character Curtis, even using the GMG variant for Body, has 28 body. A fist wielded by any but the finest martial artist or inhumanly strongest of Celestials, does on average 1d6-3, 1.5 points of damage. Even assuming a hit every time, that is 14+ rounds of combat. Guns are not much better, averaging 3 body per round for a 9 mm pistol.

However, I tend to a bit more realism in my games. I am perfectly fine in having Celestials twice as hard to kill as humans. Twice as hard to kill as a CAR? Not so much.

Doing a little math: So, a 9 force Celestial with Str 6 would add 15 body to a vessel/1 (I am not exactly sure how the rest of your calculations are accomplished) while a Vessel/3 would be 45 body added to the character, while a vessel/6 would add 90 body! It seems you are taking away on the one hand and giving it right back with the other. To quote from the GMG referenced:

Quote:
(Original system) This means celestials have 2 to 144 Body hits, and
normal humans have 1 to 70 Body hits.
.
.
.
(GMG system) A 9-Force celestial now has 16 to 57 Body hits...normal 5-Force humans
range from 7 to 28 Body
Frankly, if you want the disparity between the two, why not stay with the original system?

Last edited by JCD; 04-18-2010 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: House Rules

Undead should take 1/3 damage from guns and impaling attacks. This is suggested by a partial GURPS conversion I am doing.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: House Rules

Sadly, I have to be very careful with my group. They will abuse the rules as much as they can for their characters. It's understandable, everyone wants uber characters in some way, shape or form. I am doing what I can to make it hard for them to gain Forces, needless to say that is causing no ends of angst right there.

Funny enough, my group loves combat and they complain that combat isn't long enough or tough enough.

Sigh...

I know I'm terrible with strategy but my dice don't like me either. LOL
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: House Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlin View Post
1. Vessels use level as charisma bonus. You don’t have to buy charisma separately.
I don't know about this one. Doesn't Level determine the sturdiness of the Vessel?
What if you wanted a Vessel that was beautiful but delicate, or super tough but ugly?
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: House Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
There was an exchange I had with the Acolyte (IIRC) in which on the one hand he discussed his rules for making his vessels much tougher then humans...and on the other lamenting how long combat takes in IN. These two points are related. I believe the adjustments you are making will make combat even between Celestials VERY long.
...I didn't really consider how vast the differences were until I did the calculations were until I compared the two "average" Celestials using that variant. Once I realized my initial mistake (which I'll explain below), I discovered that what I had written was not what I wanted to express. I can fix it, but I fear that even if I do, the differences between Celestials and humans would still be vast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
Case in point. My Character Curtis, even using the GMG variant for Body, has 28 body. A fist wielded by any but the finest martial artist or inhumanly strongest of Celestials, does on average 1d6-3, 1.5 points of damage. Even assuming a hit every time, that is 14+ rounds of combat. Guns are not much better, averaging 3 body per round for a 9 mm pistol.
First, remember that a hand wielded by the finest martial artist -- one with Fighting/4 -- increases the power of a punch by +1. By the same token, an inhumanly strong Celestial (Strength 10), raises the power to +1 as well (Core Guide, p. 120.) For a starting Celestial, both of these are possible at character creation: they only raise your typical punch to 1d6-1, but it's a start.

A character with a sufficiently high strength and NC such as Claws/3 (+3 Acc, +3 Power) can jack that number up a lot higher.

Consider a Celestial with the following stats: Strength 10, Fighting/4, Numinous Corpus: Claws/3. Let's assume (and it might be an incorrect assumption, but I'm not certain), that a Claw attack is still considered a punch and is thus subject to the standard -3 penalty.

Now, say that this same Celestial throws a punch: 1d6-3 damage, but the -3 is negated by the +3 power due to Claws. Furthermore, a Strength of 10 and a skill of Fighting/4 brings that up to an additional +2. Finally, the combination of Fighting + Strength brings the TN to 14, which spills over into a nasty 1d6+4 damage. A RAW risk attack is still almost a guaranteed success, and brings your damage to 1d6+5!

If we take the average roll as 3, then the average damage is still 7 -- bringing the average combat time between Celestials (using the GMG varient) to 4 rounds, (or 10 rounds, using the RAW.)

Now factor in things like the Song of Thunder and...well, things can get nasty pretty quick.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
However, I tend to a bit more realism in my games. I am perfectly fine in having Celestials twice as hard to kill as humans. Twice as hard to kill as a CAR? Not so much.
I thought about that. Do you know that in the RAW, the average Celestial, with 36 Hits, is almost twice as difficult to kill as a small car? A combat monster such as the one mentioned above (70 hits) is twice as hard to kill as a pickup truck! Or a HELICOPTER! And that's RAW.

Granted, a Pickup Truck always has protection 3, and a Helicopter/Small Car always has Protection 2, but a Celestial can accomplish that with a Song of Corporeal Form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
Doing a little math: So, a 9 force Celestial with Str 6 would add 15 body to a vessel/1 (I am not exactly sure how the rest of your calculations are accomplished)
This is because I misremembered the rules for vessel when I wrote the proposed house rule. I forgot that Celestials HAVE to pay for at least one level of vessel. For some reason I thought that an average Celestial began play with Vessel/0, but still had a body. This is simply not the case.

The rules I were suggesting, then, would be this: a Celestials STR + Forces (average 15) multiplies his body hits by his level in Vessel. This means that the average Celestial (presuming a vessel/3) would have 45 HP. I'll tweak the proposal, but I'm pretty sure your point would still stand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
While a Vessel/3 would be 45 body added to the character, while a vessel/6 would add 90 body! It seems you are taking away on the one hand and giving it right back with the other.
I don't allow PC's to take anything higher than vessel 3 because it jacks Hits up too high, but I see your point. If I were to recalculate the proposal, the examples you cited would not be the bonus HP, but the flat HP of the target. Keep in mind, these calculations would be presented BEFORE any levels of toughness were factored in.

Even so, it places a very wide gap between humans and celestials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
Frankly, if you want the disparity between the two, why not stay with the original system?
Well, I liked that variant, but I wanted to illustrate a difference of power between vessels and toughness. A human, using the RAW or the GM Guide variant, can effectively replicate levels in Vessel with levels in Toughness. I still believe there should be a way to do that, I just haven't found it.

On a side-note, have you ever felt like guns just don't do enough damage overall? It seems to me that even if an average punch does 1d6-3 damage and a standard 9mm does about 1d6, there's still some kind of missing factor. I've often thought that there should be something inherently special about bullets, because they just don't seem to be lethal enough.

Now, this could be that I'm just not thinking cinematically enough. Instead of saying, for example, that the average bullet always hits on a high CD and shreds through the average target, I could say that even a high CD grazes the target (if the target is a main character) and only scores a powerful blow if it deals enough damage to drop the character in question...but I think that would upset some of my players.

"I rolled a 9! What do you mean I grazed him?"

I think there is a rule somewhere in the core guide that outright states (and I'm paraphrasing) "If you, as a GM, feel that a target could not reasonably survive the attack, the target dies." The trouble is, with really high powered rifles..how do you strike a balance?
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: House Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlin View Post

On a side-note, have you ever felt like guns just don't do enough damage overall?
Yes, and if I remember Beth's comments, that was a deliberate design decision. You know how, in a James Bond world, the pistol is the king of the battlefield? In the world of In Nomine, that role is held by the sword. A charging Malakite with a longsword will take a punk with a .45 seven times out of 10 because the sword is cooler. :)
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