Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-28-2010, 09:38 PM   #31
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
This I think is covered by Savior Faire(Military) rather then Soldier.
Recognizing other people's military hardware and labeling might be Soldier, though.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 09:53 PM   #32
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
That sounds so boring though...total waste of the word 'Soldier'.
I don't think so. War-fighting is primarily a test of organization, not weapon skill. A weapon master is almost completely useless on the battlefield, if not backed up with good, unexciting, soldierly skills.

If you are trying to duplicate action movie combat, I can see your point. When you're mowing down mooks with an M60 fired from the hip one handed, you probably don't have to worry about keeping your socks dry.
__________________
RyanW
For sale: Turing test cheat sheets
Check out my GURPS (et al) wiki, Sweetcandle. Latest addition: Avatar style bending in Fate Core
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 10:03 PM   #33
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
Most non-comm jarheads can enter a freq in a radio, set the dials to the right settings, change batteries, enter a cryptographic fill, and talk on air in an understandable manner.
I think you are overestimating us.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 10:24 PM   #34
Crakkerjakk
"Gimme 18 minutes . . ."
 
Crakkerjakk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I think you are overestimating us.
I'm treating the MANY times I've had to go "fix" a radio/phone and discovered that the phone was no longer connected to the wires, the radio's battery was dead, or either had had their fills zeroed, along with the fill device we gave them in case they zeroed the fill on the phone or radio, as outliers that make good stories, as opposed to the expected level of competence. It's the only thing that keeps me sane.
__________________
My bare bones web page

Semper Fi
Crakkerjakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 10:27 PM   #35
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

Soldier effectively acts as your default for any routine task that would be rolled against a military skill at +4 or better. "Routine task" doesn't just mean "simple enough to merit +4," but also "completely rote." "Military skill" means "any of a short list of noncombat skills my armed service uses." Moreover, you take any penalties that the real skill would take but get none of its bonuses. And that's it.

In effect, Soldier is a way to do all the boring crap that a soldier has to do – pack gear, dry out boots, dig foxholes, fill sandbags, unroll barbed wire, etc. – without learning the full-fledged technical skills that let you do the less-boring crap. You would never learn it in an action-oriented, larger-than-life campaign. It's specifically for realistic soldiers in campaigns where the GM intends to be deadly serious about trench foot, loose gear, rattling ammo boxes, underfilled sandbags, and night vision being wrecked by a cigarette's glow.

It's nothing like a wildcard skill at all, as then it would stand in for more skills; substitute for every use of all the skills it stands in for, whether they're at -10 or +10; receive bonuses as well as penalties; and fill in for a number of combat skills, too.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 12:23 AM   #36
Ubiquitous
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Really, Ubik (can I call you Ubik?)
Go nuts, I'm touched you've been spelling the whole thing as long as you have.


[QUOTE=sir_pudding;924049]"Soldier cannot replace weapon skills, either; you must buy all such skills separately." Besides even people who aren't combat arms, can have Soldier.
Like what? That soldier ought to help you make ice tea in a desert?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I think you are confusing what Talents are. You can't have Fireman talent. See Basic page 89.
What I meant was that if it covered a broad range of (admittedly very specialized and not broadly useful) skills, why not treat it like Business Acumen, which covers all those business and finance skills? Bunching it all under ONE skill was what struck me as odd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
It may be boring to you, I rather like the job myself. 90% of the Infantry profession is "boring" stuff, like basic patrolling and fieldcraft. The sort of things that Soldier covers, IMO.
Hey, I don't mean to rag on your job or anything, it's just that when you call something Soldier and have it represent being a broad-cover for soldier skills, an uninformed observer like myself pictures the more emphasized soldier skills like shooting and things; I did re-read the skill, my mistake was speed-reading assuming 'combat skills must be bought separately' said 'increasing combat skills must be bought separately' (which I didn't bother questioning, assuming it meant 'If you want a better Guns (Rifle) level, buy that, not this').

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
See Basic 215. You roll versus Soldier to build a terrain model, to "stack" for room clearing, to cross a danger area, or set up a vehicle check point. You roll versus Savoir-Faire to know how to mount ribbons on your dress uniform or to remember to salute the general's car. Totally different skills.
At the time I thought the distinction was weird, but I don't know what my argument was then, this makes sense now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Don't think of it as a whole bunch of skills. It's the skill of being a Soldier. The important stuff is all the things that aren't covered by other skills. What skill would you use to do 5 Paragraph Order?
...Writing? Typing?

Whew. These quote-posts are haaard.

As for Kromm's post, I didn't expect a Wild-Card skill; I just looked over the example roll-for-these notes under Soldier, noticed a pattern that they were all realistic soldier skills. I suppose I missed the part about 'no gun skills included' but when it says 'a TL8 Soldier may learn to strip his rifle without learning Armoury (Small Arms)' I had kinda made the logical leap that if it let you do THAT, than letting you fire your rifle without a Guns skill might fly too (in the express parameters that this applies only with a gun conceivably practiced and employed by armed forces and plentiful penalties are applied to not-so-related guns).

And you have to admit, for something that isn't a Wild Card skill it seems to cover a lot. I didn't even know there were Professional Skills in the game until it was mentioned some posts ago; the only other things in the book covering this many skills (although those skills are more universally useful) are those Wildcard ones; I thought Soldier before now was a more realistic Wild-Card skill, just without the '!' at the end.

EDIT: Also, I do apologize for misreading the rule, especially taking this long to go back and read it after 3 pages.
Ubiquitous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 02:17 AM   #37
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
Ze'Manel Cunha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Antilles, it's hot...
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
I'm treating the MANY times I've had to go "fix" a radio/phone and discovered that the phone was no longer connected to the wires, the radio's battery was dead, or either had had their fills zeroed, along with the fill device we gave them in case they zeroed the fill on the phone or radio, as outliers that make good stories, as opposed to the expected level of competence. It's the only thing that keeps me sane.
Come on give them a break, if they've gotten 2 points in the skill, at IQ 10, they're rolling vs Soldier at 10-, mistakes will happen, even with a +4 TDM.

It'll take a brighter than average guy, or an NCO who's put 8 points into the skill, to have it at 12-.
Ze'Manel Cunha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 02:42 AM   #38
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
Go nuts, I'm touched you've been spelling the whole thing as long as you have.
This is the first Joe Chip money I've ever seen...

Quote:
What I meant was that if it covered a broad range of (admittedly very specialized and not broadly useful) skills, why not treat it like Business Acumen, which covers all those business and finance skills? Bunching it all under ONE skill was what struck me as odd.
You are comparing apples and oranges here, Talents represent natural ability at a variety of related skills. Soldier represents the trained professional skill of Soldiering. That said, there is a Born Soldier Talent, in SEALS in Vietnam, IIRC and it does make sense for some people to be natural soldiers.

Quote:
...Writing? Typing?
Ok, without the aid of reference, write a Mission Brief.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 01-29-2010 at 04:15 AM.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 04:00 AM   #39
The Colonel
 
The Colonel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
It should be Soldier, IMO. Blackwater cleans their M16s and operates their radios the same as everybody else.
"Mercenary Talent" isn't a believable in-born trait, IMO. Something like Born Soldier, though or Born War Leader should work fine for Mercenaries.
I would go so far as to say that most mercs/PSCs will have picked up their points in Soldier as regulars somewhere - very few PSCs train their own people, they tend to head hunt disaffected talent from national forces.
In most eras, the difference between a soldier and a mercenary is the chain of command, not the skill set.
The Colonel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 06:04 PM   #40
David L Pulver
AlienAbductee
 
David L Pulver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In the UFO
Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

I'm not that keen on the Soldier and other PS skills in general.

If it's covered by skills, buy 1 point in a skill or a default. At IQ 10 it's not like you're going to have more than skill 8-9 anyway.

To remember the basic procedures of something your character is familiar with, below the resolution of a skill, roll against IQ. Isn't that what an IQ roll is generally for, anyway?

Still, Soldier is kind of useful for the basic "disciplined troops vs. solo warriors" question, but I don't really like how it is handled, in the way to make it useful.

I think the problem is that it's a conflation of Savior Fair (Military), a bit of Engineer, Hiking, the lack of a "Combat Reflexes 0" and possibly a "Fight in Ranks" technique.

Heck, much of it could be removed by adding a Specialization to Hiking to cover marching in ranks and advancing in the field, e.g., Hiking (Marching) or Hiking (Military) and the rest with a redefinition of Tactics so at the lower level it covers you not doing dumb things when you're in a fight.
__________________
Is love like the bittersweet taste of marmalade on burnt toast?

Last edited by David L Pulver; 12-14-2012 at 06:19 PM.
David L Pulver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kromm explanation, soldier

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.