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Old 01-28-2010, 08:10 PM   #21
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

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Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
Because it covers a broad range of skills? It just seems odd to put so many skills, regardless of specialty, into a bigger encompassing-skill. It makes sense I guess, but it seems a little odd to me.
It doesn't make you *better* at those skills. It just gives you a special kind of default for them.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

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Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
Because it covers a broad range of skills?
But only a narrow range of application for each skill. It will tell you how to avoid trench foot, but not how to diagnose or treat foot ailments in general. It will tell you how to dig a field latrine but not how to build a shelter or which berries to eat. It will tell you how to drill in formation, but not how to dance a quadrille. It will tell you how to keep a rifle dry, but not how to build one. It will tell you how to put armor on quickly in the case of a sudden attack, but not how to how to quickly change clothes backstage for another trip down the cat walk. (That's Professional Skill: Model, in case you were wondering)
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

one thing I am struggling with as well is how catch-all professional skills (like soldier) seem to resemble wildcard skills a whole lot, but without the price.
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

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Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post

Also, if that's the case, then how come Paramedics and Volunteer Fireman (I'm tryin' to think of other such professions) don't get their own skill? What makes Soldier so different from Savoir Faire (Military), in regards to knowing how to do this stuff; it seems so over-specified to have a skill tailored to these specific things. Savoir Faire (Military) folks, either because they served or researched it, seem as likely to know these little details, since the skill's Average it seems like it's picked up fairly easily. I know Savoir Faire, in spirit, is knowing how to ACT around the Military clique but it seems like the two would overlap if you just want the know-how...
Other professions do get this, if you want. I see Professional Skill (X) as a good umbrella skill for the ins and outs of almost any job. For example,I see Professional skill (Police) covering everything that isn't covered by another skill. For example, the cop needs driving, law (police), guns, wrestling, etc..but the Professional skill takes care of the ins and outs of ay to day--or should that be covered with Savoire Faire (Police) instead?
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:42 PM   #25
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

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Originally Posted by Wicked Lurker View Post
one thing I am struggling with as well is how catch-all professional skills (like soldier) seem to resemble wildcard skills a whole lot, but without the price.
They're much more limited than wildcard skills. Wildcards cover all specializations of their skills, in all circumstances, whereas professional skills cover some specializations in some circumstances. Soldier/TL 8 won't let you use Beam Weapons whereas Soldier! would. Also, each professional skill is centered around "day to day work in the profession of X" (and incidentally overlaps with some uses of other skills) whereas a wildcard is centered around "do anything involving a theme."
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

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Originally Posted by Wicked Lurker View Post
one thing I am struggling with as well is how catch-all professional skills (like soldier) seem to resemble wildcard skills a whole lot, but without the price.
I look at professional skills as very cursory level stuff. Digging ditches in a militarily useful way. The barest minimum in weapon cleaning techniques. Sort of an "uber-default" for very simple stuff that would usually get a hefty bonus if you had a specific skill.

So if you had Electronics Operation - 12, and were going to operate a military radio, you might be rolling at +4.

But if you DON'T have that, you could roll Soldier skill. No bonus.

And a wildcard skill? That would also get the bonus.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:21 PM   #27
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

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Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
Yeah, but think about how vague that kinda sounds. I knew it involved Foxhole digging and stuff; a skill you'd use for operating and performing Soldierly actions was how I remembered it.
Really, Ubik (can I call you Ubik?), you need to reread Basic page 221.
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Which was why I thought it would apply to combat skills
"Soldier cannot replace weapon skills, either; you must buy all such skills separately." Besides even people who aren't combat arms, can have Soldier.
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(Honestly, I'd say you're a construction worker with good disciplinary skills if you dig foxholes but don't fight wars).
A combat engineer should have Soldier and you can have Soldier and never actually fight in a war.
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And anyway I knew this forum has a lot of military buffs; I thought I'd pop the question to get the more esoteric bits outta them, not just what was in the book.
Like what? That soldier ought to help you make ice tea in a desert?
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How come Soldier is a stand-alone skill, not a Talent or such?
I think you are confusing what Talents are. You can't have Fireman talent. See Basic page 89.
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How come Paramedic or Volunteer Fireman, people with broad-reaching but specific skillsets aren't included?
Why shouldn't they get their own Professional Skills (of which Soldier is just an example).
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That sounds so boring though...total waste of the word 'Soldier'.
It may be boring to you, I rather like the job myself. 90% of the Infantry profession is "boring" stuff, like basic patrolling and fieldcraft. The sort of things that Soldier covers, IMO.
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Also, if that's the case, then how come Paramedics and Volunteer Fireman (I'm tryin' to think of other such professions) don't get their own skill?
See Basic 215.
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What makes Soldier so different from Savoir Faire (Military), in regards to knowing how to do this stuff; it seems so over-specified to have a skill tailored to these specific things. Savoir Faire (Military) folks, either because they served or researched it, seem as likely to know these little details, since the skill's Average it seems like it's picked up fairly easily. I know Savoir Faire, in spirit, is knowing how to ACT around the Military clique but it seems like the two would overlap if you just want the know-how...
You roll versus Soldier to build a terrain model, to "stack" for room clearing, to cross a danger area, or set up a vehicle check point. You roll versus Savoir-Faire to know how to mount ribbons on your dress uniform or to remember to salute the general's car. Totally different skills.

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Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
Because it covers a broad range of skills? It just seems odd to put so many skills, regardless of specialty, into a bigger encompassing-skill. It makes sense I guess, but it seems a little odd to me.
Don't think of it as a whole bunch of skills. It's the skill of being a Soldier. The important stuff is all the things that aren't covered by other skills. What skill would you use to do 5 Paragraph Order? Incidentally it allows a default at Soldier-4 for routine tasks that would ordinarily have a +4 TDM, in a few skills, within very narrow limits. I'd allow a Soldier/TL8 roll to get on a "green gear" radio and call a 9 line CasEvac; I wouldn't allow it to get on a police radio and run someone's license and registration.
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Originally Posted by Wicked Lurker View Post
one thing I am struggling with as well is how catch-all professional skills (like soldier) seem to resemble wildcard skills a whole lot, but without the price.
Not really. Soldier really only gives a -4 default to a few skills in extremely narrow circumstances and that IMO, isn't even it's main purpose.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 08-25-2010 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

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What are some of the non-combat skills a TL 2-3 conscript might learn (if anything)?
Soldiers of all TLs learn a lot of things in common. You don't march from Alesia to the Rubicon without knowing how to take care of your feet.

Building basic field fortifications - Hadrian's Wall required engineers, a fortified camp requires trained but not particularly specialized labor.

Basic heraldry - Who do you salute, and which flag do you stand under?
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:31 PM   #29
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

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Basic heraldry - Who do you salute, and which flag do you stand under?
This I think is covered by Savior Faire(Military) rather than Soldier.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 01-28-2010 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:36 PM   #30
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Default Re: Some questions about the Soldier skill

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
So if you had Electronics Operation - 12, and were going to operate a military radio, you might be rolling at +4.
To go into greater detail. I was a comm guy. I probably had 2-4 points in Electronics Operation(Comm). Everyone in the Marines has Soldier. What's the difference between what I can do with a dedicated skill v. what most jarheads can do with Soldier?

Most non-comm jarheads can enter a freq in a radio, set the dials to the right settings, change batteries, enter a cryptographic fill, and talk on air in an understandable manner.

I can do all that, plus I know how to set up the bigger more complicated radios and comm gear, including programming some of them. I can draw wiring diagrams of where different types of phones, radios, and computers are going in a communications net. I can estimate how many of each various size units are going to need. If something breaks, there's a small chance I can get it working again, given a soldering iron. I can operate cryptographic devices that most non-comm guys have never heard of and construct large antennas out of comm wire, spoons, and batteries.

This is the difference between soldier and a dedicated skill. Soldier gives you shallow knowledge in the equipment you are issued. A dedicated skill gives you enough breadth and depth of training that you can deal with equipment that you don't normally use in less-ideal circumstances, and with a much greater understanding of WHY you're not supposed to push the red button.
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