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Old 01-14-2010, 09:30 PM   #21
Cernig
 
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

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I thought there were spells and then powers that you could also get, in addition to the spells. Like the clerics getting spells plus all the holy powers they can buy.
I don't suppose that would be out of the question. But my modern urban horror game is powers only, so it was especially useful for me there.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:39 PM   #22
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

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Originally Posted by Cernig View Post
Thank you SJG, I just found lots of extra goodness (i.e. badness :-) to throw at my players in my "modern urban fantasy" game as well as my fantasy/DF game.
I don't actually fun a DF, my players more or less wouldnt abide that ^_^. But I do use it for inspiration for my other campaigns. This has got to be one of hte best ones yet. Though I do have one nitpick, and Phil, if you are reading this it's directed at you...do you have some sort of mind reading device?! I created a perk almost identical to the Licensed Exorcist almost a year ago for my urban fantasy game...great minds think alike and all but seriously; satellites? Evil British Powers? Telereceiving? Throw a guy a bone here. Fantastic book though, as always you guys (SJ Games) bring your best and print it.

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Old 01-14-2010, 11:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

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Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty View Post
Those are explicitly optional at this point, for two main reasons. First, they garnered some complaints about being "filler-like". But more importantly, as you start to add more and more templates, it becomes ridiculous to try to keep up on it all. Going from 10 templates to 11 requires adding 20 new lenses, for example! It gets to a point where it's a question of page count. In this case, Summoners could have included all those lenses -- at the cost of losing a huge chunk of summoned creatures! Given a choice between a full range of elementals or 'cross-class lenses', I'd rather have the elementals.
Rather than a full repertoire of Mixed-Profession lenses what would have been nice is a single 50-point Mixed-Profession lens for each of the new professions, to give a quick & dirty guide for PC's of other Professions to advance into the new Profession; this was done for the Artificer & Scholar in DF 4: Sages (The Artificer lens was [70], owing to Gagateer being so expensive). This would allow for maximum mixing without taking up too much page space.

Additionally, a short list of Power-Ups for each new profession adding a few "advanced" abilities that aren't available in character creation or unhinging an attribute important to that class would add something for players to strive for.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:58 AM   #24
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
I'm liking it, but I from a cursory read, I haven't found Powerups or cross-class lenses for the templates ...
Cross-training into any of the four character types in this book is really rather complicated - or infeasible. This is partly for fiddly rules reasons (mixing Magery and some of these specialist talents isn't terribly cost-efficient, for a start, and may require all sorts of on-the-fly tweaking), and partly because demonology or shamanism or whatever isn't just a job; it's a long-term lifestyle decision. It requires a lot of commitment (i.e. points) and really shapes the character's personality. Mixed-class characters are likely to come out a bit goofy, frankly.

As for power-ups; given their penchant for binding squads of supernatural allies, and their access to powers, anybody who can't already see uses for as many extra points as these characters can vacuum up, making them appropriately more powerful and flexible, isn't trying and should go back to playing a fighter.
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:07 AM   #25
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
I'm liking it, but I from a cursory read, I haven't found Powerups or cross-class lenses for the templates :(

I feel that, since DF, every template released should have those extra bit, since it feels a bit unfair, if you use templates, to give some players more "kewl stuff" than to others.
I agree, lack of DF3-style Power-Up options is an important issue both with DF5 and the new DF9.

On the other hand, multiclassing Lenses will get out of hand, now that there are 17 rather than 11 classes. We're talking 272 possible combinations (if my "math" is correct, which it may not be, since I'm a bit stressed these days), thus 162 new cominations in addition to the 110 (if my "math" is correct) combination Lenses given in DF3. Not only that, but Kromm also won't charge full page price for such content, and so there's less incentive for him to write it in the first place.


Overall I was very pleasantly surprised with DF9, relative to DF7, though. Lots of crunchy bits there (just no kewl upgrades for Summoner templates, as you say).

The upgrade Lenses for the elementals are a bit confusing; it isn't clear to me if they can all be stacked or if I'm supposed to only ever take any one, and they all appear specific, without any "same, except more powerful overall"-type Lenses available. Beyond that I also have a lot of other quite minor issues (nothing like with DF7), but I'm reluctant to voice them yet, not having read the entire PDF properly.
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

Absolutely superb. Bravo!

My only concern is that so much of this material is useful outside of a DF campaign. In particular, most fantasy campaigns are liable to benefit from the material in this book.
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:00 AM   #27
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

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Absolutely superb. Bravo!

My only concern is that so much of this material is useful outside of a DF campaign. In particular, most fantasy campaigns are liable to benefit from the material in this book.
*Shrug*

Non-DF campaigns should probably enjoy a more personal approach than the biscuit-cutter provided by DF (speaking solely based on my mild exposure to earlier DF supplements).
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:26 AM   #28
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

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My only concern is that so much of this material is useful outside of a DF campaign. In particular, most fantasy campaigns are liable to benefit from the material in this book.
I think that the DF books are in general a lot more useful outside of the DF genre than they let on. Though not completely ready for use outside of DF, the templates can get one most of the way there to create relatively high-point characters; the monster, ally, and summoned entity descriptions in DFs 2, 5, and 9 are well-statted enough to serve as opposition at the very least and often as a strong basis for more fully fleshed characters; and the vast majority of DF8 can be used as-is, generally only requiring a few price tweaks to fit into other fantasy campaigns, and DF6 at least provides an interesting catalog of items the GM might want to introduce.
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:36 AM   #29
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

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Originally Posted by Molokh View Post
Non-DF campaigns should probably enjoy a more personal approach than the biscuit-cutter provided by DF (speaking solely based on my mild exposure to earlier DF supplements).
This is true, but not everything in DF is is biscuit-cutter material. For example, the four magic powers in DF 9 could be useful in a wide variety of campaigns, either directly lifted from the book, or tweaked.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:38 AM   #30
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners

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Mixed-class characters are likely to come out a bit goofy, frankly.
Going the other way, though, might be more practical. The summoners are probably similar enough to the original spell-caster templates that you could simply use the existing crossover lenses.

After a quick check it seems like the Druid based lenses are the best fit, with Cleric-Druid serving for the <X>-Druid crossovers.

Yay! Necromancer-Holy Warrior!
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