In Nomine and real religious reactions?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by DAlillama

I've had the opposite problem: When I explained the premise to some of my gamer acquaintances, I was told "But I'm not a Christian, why would I want to play something like that?"

QFT

I know a few people that refuse to play because they are (or at least pretend to be) offended by any suggestion Jewish, Christian and Muslim mythologies might be real. Which I always thought was weird given a) CDaU on the subject and b) they are perfectly happy to play theists in other settings with made up gods.

[BillionSix]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

People that can't separate reality from fiction should be under treatments for their obvious delusions.
I hate the very idea that anyone must defend a game. Their games, people. Get over it. Do they throw hissy fits over ball in a cup, or hula hoops?

But... but what if someone uses a hula hoop, and actually thinks he's dancing the hula? :-O

[Parabola]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

QFT

I know a few people that refuse to play because they are (or at least pretend to be) offended by any suggestion Jewish, Christian and Muslim mythologies might be real. Which I always thought was weird given a) CDaU on the subject and b) they are perfectly happy to play theists in other settings with made up gods.

I can sort of see that because they probably didn't grow up having, say, the ancient Norse or Greek religion pushed at them but they possibly did grow up having Christianity or one of the others pushed at them or they live in a culture that keeps telling them one of these mythologies is literally true. In other words, they may have built ip a resentment of one of these religions that they never built up against any of the old pagan religions.

For example, I've played gods in games, I've even played Thor. But I never bothered with things like, "How does the Norse creation myth fit into reality?" I just assumed it didn't, that it was the Norse gods myth about themselves and where they came from. End of story. But I tried playing an angel and I stopped after a couple of adventures because it was causing more resentment than fun. I was sitting there thinking things like, "So, I'm an angel? So where does evolution and all the inconsistencies in the creation myth fit into my existence? What's the real story?" It was becoming just a catalyst for a lot of resentments to come out.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by The Final Door

And I'll notify you when there is something public on the thing, so you can all scream in horror and through mini-bibles (seriously?) at me. Or mini-INs, if SJG will print them :D

How about USB memory dongles with copies of the IN core rules PDF? <g>

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Parabola

I can sort of see that because they probably didn't grow up having, say, the ancient Norse or Greek religion pushed at them but they possibly did grow up having Christianity or one of the others pushed at them or they live in a culture that keeps telling them one of these mythologies is literally true. In other words, they may have built ip a resentment of one of these religions that they never built up against any of the old pagan religions.

For example, I've played gods in games, I've even played Thor. But I never bothered with things like, "How does the Norse creation myth fit into reality?" I just assumed it didn't, that it was the Norse gods myth about themselves and where they came from. End of story. But I tried playing an angel and I stopped after a couple of adventures because it was causing more resentment than fun. I was sitting there thinking things like, "So, I'm an angel? So where does evolution and all the inconsistencies in the creation myth fit into my existence? What's the real story?" It was becoming just a catalyst for a lot of resentments to come out.

Shouldn't CDaU take care of this to some extent (especially since I generally run low-contrast games anyway)? If the Etherals might also be right (which canonically, they could be, and IMIN definitely could be), then it's not as though anything your character believes need be literally true. About the only thing that you could say for certain is that Angels and Demons exist (as well as pagan gods and spirits) which is also true of D&D, which these players didn't have any problem with.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by DAlillama

I've had the opposite problem: When I explained the premise to some of my gamer acquaintances, I was told "But I'm not a Christian, why would I want to play something like that?"

Well, that was how it turned out for me. A very well-regarded and generally excellent GM offered to run In Nomine for a group of my friends. We bought the rules, generated characters, played. But it all seemed a bit strange and pointless.

The GM seemed to think that it mattered that our characters were angels, and that our superior were archangels and servants of God, and that it ought to be shocking that the angels had disagreements about how to go about opposing their enemies, and that some of them were pretty hard-core. The creepy multi-eyed police-state guy was supposed to be particularly...something. The rather low contrast was supposed to be...something. But we couldn't tell what. Just couldn't tell what the difference was supposed to be between our characters and superheros. We tried to find out. Couldn't. I think that doubting God's Plan, and doubting that angels are serving it was supposed to be...something. But if angels are just something you see on Christmas cards while you are trying to get lunch in a crowd of frenzied shoppers it doesn't work.

Suppose I ran a game in which the Bosatu and the Oni were represented as rather like rival yakuza, and not so different as all that. It wouldn't be exciting and edgy. It'd just be weird and pointless.

I think that perhaps all the angel and demon stuff doesn't resonate right for non-Abrahamic players.

[The Final Door]

Originally Posted by robkelk

How about USB memory dongles with copies of the IN core rules PDF? <g>

I am sure SJG would be very pleased, especially if you bought each as an actual copy :) And my skull is thick enough to handle it, so go right ahead :D

Originally Posted by Brett

I think that perhaps all the angel and demon stuff doesn't resonate right for non-Abrahamic players.

Okay... that's an unexpected twist! But anyway, the setting is published with the basic assumptions that PCs are humans caught in Divine affairs. Angels and demons (which, btw, are very different from IN. Very) are options that will get treatment in a later supplement, for PC use. I think; nothing is 100% clear yet!

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Brett

Suppose I ran a game in which the Bosatu and the Oni were represented as rather like rival yakuza, and not so different as all that. It wouldn't be exciting and edgy. It'd just be weird and pointless.

Sounds kind of cool actually.

I think that perhaps all the angel and demon stuff doesn't resonate right for non-Abrahamic players.

I'm an agnostic (or whatever, probably more of a pantheist actually) and I'm continually reminded that I live in a Christian culture, and things like Angels and Demons definitely resonate with me. Perhaps this is a difference between American and Australian cultures?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Sounds kind of cool actually.

I'm an agnostic (or whatever, probably more of a pantheist actually) and I'm continually reminded that I live in a Christian culture, and things like Angels and Demons definitely resonate with me. Perhaps this is a difference between American and Australian cultures?

It might have more to do with upbringing that final adult beliefs.
I was an atheist long before I knew that everyone else wasn't. Angels and demons seem like superheroes and villains. I would have trouble playing it as anything else. I would relish the chance to try though, but it doesn't really resonate with me on any other level.

[Parabola]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Shouldn't CDaU take care of this to some extent (especially since I generally run low-contrast games anyway)? If the Etherals might also be right (which canonically, they could be, and IMIN definitely could be), then it's not as though anything your character believes need be literally true. About the only thing that you could say for certain is that Angels and Demons exist (as well as pagan gods and spirits) which is also true of D&D, which these players didn't have any problem with.

OOPS. I knew I should have explained in more detail. It wasn't in In Nomine that I played Thor or an angel (although I do have permission to play Thor in an In Nomine campaign). I was referring to my experience of playing an angel in a rpg but not specifically IN. The angel was not exactly a biblical angel but it was close. I don't think I would be bothered nearly as much playing an angel in IN simply because I think the game wisely makes them fairly divergent from biblical angels and avoids in depth theological issues.

I was just making a general statement that I could sort of relate to someone having no problem playing pagan gods while having an issue playing an angel. It doesn't always feel like the same thing. I think that for a lot of people, because Christianity is a major part of our culture (and Islam more and more), playing an angel is, in their minds, dealing with 'religion' while playing a pagan god is just playing a fantasy character without thinking much about the fact that it involves religion.

I will say I long ago knew some people that hated Runequest because it dealt heavily with the 'realities' of religion. I rather thought that was silly in a fantasy setting. Realistically, it would heavily involve religion.

Anyway, I was just saying I could see why some people would feel that way. By the way, I'm pretty knew to In Nomine. I'm not sure what CDaU is.