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Old 12-30-2009, 12:35 PM   #31
Nymdok
 
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

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Originally Posted by Molokh View Post
Proposition: create a tag, e.g. 'nowing', which would identify if the person asking the question doesn't want to hear 'just wing it' as the answer to her question. That way we can separate newbies who just don't know how to use GURPS from people who asking because they want detailed stats/writeups.
Well, thats sort of what Im driving at. You can define resonably well the skills an NPC may or may not have. But getting the Right Skill LEVEL is a much more context (in this case, story and Party abilities) sensitive problem that may completely invalidate a numeric value.

In keeping with the Given example, whats Indy's Pistol skill? 12? 14? 24? 143? Did he just roll a crit? How cinematic or Realistic is YOUR campaign and YOUR concept of Indy?

We can all agree that he has SOME pistol skill, but what it should be as a number is very campaign dependent.

Sadly, this means that full writeups that are easy for GMs to pull down and use whole cloth are nonexistent. The individuality and customization that GURPS allows is a double edged sword here.

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Old 12-30-2009, 01:03 PM   #32
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

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Okay, this I can relate to. I can see why it would be frustrating to create in a topic where you want to get something statted, but the first two to three responses are some variation of "you don't need stats" for it. Very, very, very frustrating considering that you've probably paid for the book(s) and want to put them to use.

Also, while the tag idea proposed by Molokh is neat, it cuts into other tags that could be used. It should be common courtesy to offer suggestions that work within the mechanics of the GURPS system first, and fall back to the aforementioned suggestion should no alternative present itself or the effort to be an AMAZINGLY obvious waste of a time.

Thank you, jeff_wilson.
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Last edited by Ragitsu; 12-30-2009 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:53 PM   #33
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

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Originally Posted by jeff_wilson View Post
"There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC" - I'm seeing this opinion (with which I do not agree) expressed more frequently than previous here, and I would like to see if users can post informed reasons for having it when there are several rules like the long-established Allies and Enemies that require the opposite behavior.
(1) The GM does not have the time to fully stat out all the NPCs in the campaign, therefore only the most important ones get full stats. That includes Enemies and Allies.

(2) Most NPCs do not require full stats. They require only those stats necessary for the PCs to interact with them.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:54 PM   #34
jeff_wilson
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

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Originally Posted by Nymdok View Post
In keeping with the Given example, whats Indy's Pistol skill? 12? 14? 24? 143? Did he just roll a crit? How cinematic or Realistic is YOUR campaign and YOUR concept of Indy?

We can all agree that he has SOME pistol skill, but what it should be as a number is very campaign dependent.

Sadly, this means that full writeups that are easy for GMs to pull down and use whole cloth are nonexistent. The individuality and customization that GURPS allows is a double edged sword here.
This doesn't mean that you can't give a meaningful quantitative answer, only that there are several. These different answers can still be objectively useful if they are based on commonly known benchmarks, of which GURPS is gradually re-accumulating after the new edition and more recent changes of direction. I've mentioned this sort of thing before, mostly in regard to the Invulnerability issue.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:04 PM   #35
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

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Originally Posted by copeab View Post
(1) The GM does not have the time to fully stat out all the NPCs in the campaign, therefore only the most important ones get full stats. That includes Enemies and Allies.

(2) Most NPCs do not require full stats. They require only those stats necessary for the PCs to interact with them.
That brings up a funny story. Black Ops campaign, with a Combat Ops sneaking through the inevitable ductwork from A to B.

The Op drops into a room, only to surprise a worker, who I arbitrarily decide, for fun, has Judo-12. No other stats were created; it was a "just wing it" moment.

Well, Mr. Judo proceeded to make the most amazing series of rolls to parry and grapple with a 700+ point character very successfully. This guy was going against the Combat Op version of one of the Gracies, and was holding his own.

It made for a fun, nice, "I can't believe this..." moment that was great color for the episode. But the only stats it required was something like ST10, DX10, Judo-12.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:47 PM   #36
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

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Originally Posted by zorg View Post
That. A common mistake by many new to Gurps is that since the system can stat up everything up to and including your fridge, you actually should do that.
The fridge is an ally of your PC, who is a sapient blueberry muffin, natch.

I'm firmly of the opinion that you should stat however much you want to. Some folks have a lot of fun generating detailed stats for a rusted out Lada that the PCs might never try to drive, others pull stats for almost everything out of a random orifice (roll on the random orifice table) on the fly. As long as it's fun for you, and not bothering your players, go for it.

I will note that the orifice based method requires much less prep work, but possibly more skill.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:23 PM   #37
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu View Post
Okay, this I can relate to. I can see why it would be frustrating to create in a topic where you want to get something statted, but the first two to three responses are some variation of "you don't need stats" for it.
QFT. I think we can take it as given that most of us understand the idea of "NPCs don't need full stats. Just decide what they can do."

OTOH, when people come to these forums with specific "how do I stat this?" requests, I think we can assume that they're not looking for a list of "you don't need specific stats for that" replies.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:37 PM   #38
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
That brings up a funny story. Black Ops campaign, with a Combat Ops sneaking through the inevitable ductwork from A to B.

The Op drops into a room, only to surprise a worker, who I arbitrarily decide, for fun, has Judo-12. No other stats were created; it was a "just wing it" moment.

Well, Mr. Judo proceeded to make the most amazing series of rolls to parry and grapple with a 700+ point character very successfully. This guy was going against the Combat Op version of one of the Gracies, and was holding his own.

It made for a fun, nice, "I can't believe this..." moment that was great color for the episode. But the only stats it required was something like ST10, DX10, Judo-12.
I don't have a problem with this sort of streamlined, shorthand statting, because you are re-using small numbers of simple traits that are already well established and worked out, so that anything not detailed can be expected to be at default value with little or no loss of accuracy. The same thing couldn't be said of more varied and capable adversaries like Anita Blake's monster parade or Lords of the Sith.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:49 PM   #39
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

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Originally Posted by martinl View Post
The fridge is an ally of your PC, who is a sapient blueberry muffin, natch.

I'm firmly of the opinion that you should stat however much you want to. Some folks have a lot of fun generating detailed stats for a rusted out Lada that the PCs might never try to drive, others pull stats for almost everything out of a random orifice (roll on the random orifice table) on the fly. As long as it's fun for you, and not bothering your players, go for it.

I will note that the orifice based method requires much less prep work, but possibly more skill.
It's worse than that...I've written an Inspiration Pad Pro program that does the pulling automagically for me. It will generate 1000 "quick and dirty" NPCs for me in about 20 seconds. :)

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Old 12-30-2009, 03:49 PM   #40
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Default Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC

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Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex View Post
OTOH, when people come to these forums with specific "how do I stat this?" requests, I think we can assume that they're not looking for a list of "you don't need specific stats for that" replies.
Not necessarily, some GMs may be under the the misimpression that they do need to stat unnecessary things out, if the right context for not needing to over stat can be shown then they realize this, and hopefully become more involved in running their games, instead of playing by themselves at making stat creations.

After all, the idea is to help each other be better GMs and whatnot, so if we can help someone pull their head out of their ass and actually do things which will entertain their players, it's a win win for everyone.
Right? *grin*
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