History and Prejudices

[Black Rose]

Example: Arthur Adams is an historian from Kent, England, with a specialty in the US Civil War (don't ask why -- my fiancee lives in Australia and focused on slavery in the US, it can happen). He has History (US Civil War)-13.

William "Billy" Barnes is an assistant principal, amateur historian, and member of the Ku Klux Klan. He also has History (US Civil War)-13, but he has a lot of "assumptions" about the information he knows.

Is there any actual change to the skills in this situation? What happens if Mr. Barnes teaches US History for a year -- the kids don't automatically have his belief system, but the information they're being taught is being filtered through his worldview.

Another example: Craig Carlyle is studying the history of the Spanish-American War. So is David Drummond. They both have History (Spanish-American War)-11. But Craig lives in the year 2000, and David in 1904.

Does Craig have a "better" understanding of the situation leading to the declaration of the war (bombing of the USS Maine, yellow journalism and such) than David, considering David does not know of the full ramifications of these acts?

To sum up: how do you -- if, in fact, you do at all -- quantify the idea of prejudice and misinformation, and its effect on the History skill?

[Ragitsu]

Along those lines, I wonder if there were any soldiers at that time with the Broad-Minded Quirk.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Black Rose

To sum up: how do you -- if, in fact, you do at all -- quantify the idea of prejudice and misinformation, and its effect on the History skill?

Prejudice and misinformation can produce modifiers to the skill roll but only when relevant. Mr. Barnes for example is every bit as able to identify battles, locate battlefields, dig up trivia about what generals ate for breakfast as his counterpart. It's only if someone should for example ask him a question about something like how many women were raped by Sherman's troops that his roll to estimate the total is liable to be penalized. And of course history only acquaints you with knowledge available to you in your time.

[Orion Deckrect]

I wont dare to go deep on this topic you are proposing, but i think would be useful to keep in mind that the same skill level NEVER mens to posses the same information. Thats why characters may contest. Its an abstract way to check if in a given situation a character knows more and better about a subject than other charcater.

Also, using your example, and taking the History skill, the main stream history books are also made of assumptions. But thos are followed by a larger number of academics. Remembers me Daniel Jackson, from Stargate.

Also, its important to remember that many times, teachers may make their pupils reach their skill level or the have the same amount of points used on the skill. But as it is ruled by the attribute, it also means that the "world view" is implicit into the skill level or the time you take to reach the given skill level. Was this last paragraph clear?

[Landwalker]

Originally Posted by Orion Deckrect

Was this last paragraph clear?

Only if you were trying to claim that a person's intelligence is dictated by their world view and cultural upbringing. Which I hope is not the case.

Cheers.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Black Rose

Example: Arthur Adams is an historian from Kent, England, with a specialty in the US Civil War (don't ask why -- my fiancee lives in Australia and focused on slavery in the US, it can happen). He has History (US Civil War)-13.

William "Billy" Barnes is an assistant principal, amateur historian, and member of the Ku Klux Klan. He also has History (US Civil War)-13, but he has a lot of "assumptions" about the information he knows.

Are we seriously fnording the name "Ku Klux Klan" now? We're discussing fictional characters in a game here, not slinging libel...

Originally Posted by Black Rose

Another example: Craig Carlyle is studying the history of the Spanish-American War. So is David Drummond. They both have History (Spanish-American War)-11. But Craig lives in the year 2000, and David in 1904.

Does Craig have a "better" understanding of the situation leading to the declaration of the war (bombing of the USS Maine, yellow journalism and such) than David, considering David does not know of the full ramifications of these acts?

IMHO it's not History to David at all, and cannot be approached by him in such a scholarly manner with full and detailed analysis by many experts with hindsight by definition. On the other hand, he gets a relative +2 bonus to know plain facts about it, if he puts the same points into the Easy skill Current Events (Politics) instead of the Hard skill History for the same information.

[Orion Deckrect]

No. I am saying that a peron's inteligence help on he/she's world view... It helps to place things and experiences together to build up knowledge.

[Gudiomen]

I think a broader solution to this, and other situations like it, is using familiarity penalties. Yes, the pistol skill is the same, but there are many different pistols. History is the same, it's the same history, but with different approaches/views/skews/biases...

Pupils of Mr. Barnes will have -2 familiarity when dealing with mainstream history, but will be at no penalty in their home environment or, say, in places where that view is shared.

You can wave the penalty on a case-by-case basys, depending if that particular facet of history or historical facts would not differ in any of the versions.

I'd use the same to differentiate american and european sociology, for example. In my eye, this is the stuff familiarity was created to handle.

Edit: if the view is REALLY skewed to the point of obviousness and crassness, you can create a variant skill, just like there is Judo and Judo (Sport), which are clearly different and default at each other with -3. You chould have History (Barnes'), or whatever name suits. And if Barnes is pursuing a secret agenda to brainwash the kids, the kid's aren't even learning history some of the time, the points are going to quirk level intolerance and fantasies.

[Avanesov]

If somebody believes something that factually isn't true; then doesn't that simply qualify as a delusion?

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Black Rose

To sum up: how do you -- if, in fact, you do at all -- quantify the idea of prejudice and misinformation, and its effect on the History skill?

Mostly not. If it is sufficiently serious, you buy a different skill, usually qualified by the word Legendary. So Billy-Boy could actually have the skill History (Legendary US Civil War)-13. Though he'd probably only have that if he'd gotten all his information orally from other KKK members or something, I mostly use it for popular knowledge in cultures that don't really *have* a concept of academic history.

Otherwise, I suppose I might give him a penalty or bonus to know or not know something particularly in line with his prejudices, but mostly he probably knows the same facts, he just has a different interpretation of the reasons and motives behind those facts. Since reasons and motives of now dead people are inaccessible to everybody (and those of live people are pretty hard to discover too), I can't see how this would ever matter.