UT155 HEMP rounds: Underpriced and Lacks details?

[nik1979]

10mm 8d(5) imp inc + linked 1d-2 ex cr [1d-2] x2 cost!

This basically is MUCH better than using blasters or lasers. In fact it puts APEP's divisor (3) to shame!

at an average damage of 28(5) imp inc even DR100 doesnt stand much of a chance against it.

Its not clear if there are any differences between converting 10mm rifle or pistol rounds into HEMP (which it should since the 10mm rounds for pistols are much shorter than the rifle's.

[Langy]

APEP is actually better than HEMP if you're using a decent rifle. The Storm Carbine does 7d pi+ damage. With APEP that's nocked down to 7d pi damage.

But then you turn that rifle into an ETK weapon and your 7d damage is increased to 14d. That's an average of 49 (3) pi damage, which will penetrate nearly DR150. Your 28(5) only penetrates DR140 on average. That ETK weapon can increase damage even further by using Boosted Velocity mode, increasing damage to 14d+14 (3) pi.

Your weapon is now able to penetrade DR162 on average.

Not only that, but it'll have twice the range of a HEMP round and HEMP rounds don't get bonus damage from raw kinetic energy, so the damage bonus from an ETK rifle is wasted.

EDIT: Oh, and you can increase damage even further by pulling ammo out of High-Tech, including DU penetrators. An APFSDSDU penetrator round would deal:

32d+1 (2) pi damage with an average penetration of DR226.

[nik1979]

ETK? If you mean ETC then thats just a x1.5 increase in damage
Boosted Velocity with ETC will require a GM's interpretation because your basically cooking 2 different chemicals to create the KE to launch a projectile. It doesn't make sense to me to combine the two different chemicals stacking them on simply with the assumption that combined they will create more KE. Another thing that doesnt make sense is that dmg is logarithmic in progression relative to energy and X+Y (liquid propel + ETC) isn't that logarithmic.

10mmCL is $0.8 or $8 for APEP vs $1.6 with HEMP rounds.
A mag of 50
$400 for APEP vs $80 for HEMP

I can even use it in heavy pistols (given RAW). I've been twiddling with this since the Shared Loadout Thread.

the bottom Line is that with HEMP is good enough to take out DR100 slapping it on to ANY other 10mm Weapon vs its Costs.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Langy

EDIT: Oh, and you can increase damage even further by pulling ammo out of High-Tech, including DU penetrators. An APFSDSDU penetrator round would deal:

32d+1 (2) pi damage with an average penetration of DR226.

Yeah, I knew that at some point HT will 'beat' UT.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by nik1979

ETK? If you mean ETC then thats just a x1.5 increase in damage
Boosted Velocity with ETC will require a GM's interpretation because your basically cooking 2 different chemicals to create the KE to launch a projectile. It doesn't make sense to me to combine the two different chemicals stacking them on simply with the assumption that combined they will create more KE. Another thing that doesnt make sense is that dmg is logarithmic in progression relative to energy and X+Y (liquid propel + ETC) isn't that logarithmic.

10mmCL is $0.8 or $8 for APEP vs $1.6 with HEMP rounds.
A mag of 50
$400 for APEP vs $80 for HEMP

I can even use it in heavy pistols (given RAW). I've been twiddling with this since the Shared Loadout Thread.

the bottom Line is that with HEMP is good enough to take out DR100 slapping it on to ANY other 10mm Weapon vs its Costs.

Not ETC, nor just LP, but ETK.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Not ETC, nor just LP, but ETK.

Specifically, scroll down to Electrothermal-Kinetic Slugthrowers (TL10).

[nik1979]

I stand corrected. I've not seen the designers notes and find the information surprising at x2 the cost. So at 14d that's 49dmg with a storm carbine and with a anti mat rifle at 5dx6 at 105 dmg ave.

Now one has 3 cheaper options that is better than Gauss (ETC, HEMP and ETK) or did I miss something?

I'm actually glad that ETK is around, it basically changes the ground forces doctrine back to modern day where stealth trumps armor.


Still the disparity of being able to use HEMP from conventional ballistics without any modification and still take out commando armor and below really changes the "doctrine" of battle.

This will just give my GM a head-ache tsk tsk... I better not introduce it ton the group.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by nik1979

I'm actually glad that ETK is around, it basically changes the ground forces doctrine back to modern day where stealth trumps armor.

UT probably should've been made with possible doctrine changes in mind. As it stands, it seems like the stats are more of the 'feels reasonable' sort, with little regard for how presence or absence of certain weapons/options/armor changes the battlefield.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Molokh

UT probably should've been made with possible doctrine changes in mind. As it stands, it seems like the stats are more of the 'feels reasonable' sort, with little regard for how presence or absence of certain weapons/options/armor changes the battlefield.

Hmmm... I'll be the last to defend UT; but from what I've experienced, the battlefield feels like a TL8 one, but more so.

Information and recon are the key, anything you see you can kill and heavy armour is utterly pointless in a real battle if it impedes your mobility or stealth.

The real utility of armour is for security operations against people with outdated or civilian hardware. Two militaries facing off will usually have weapons that easily penetrate the heaviest personal armour with just a flick of a switch or at most a change of mags.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Yeah, I knew that at some point HT will 'beat' UT.

A consequence of doing UT first I suppose. Almost all of the TL9 rifles (ACC 4 except fro a few of the sniper types) are less accurate than an M16 (ACC 5).

The 10mm "Heavy" Pistol is a little better than a .40 S&S (3D v 2D+2) but the 15mm is rather modest at 4D+1. That's barely better than the .50AE at 4D and less than the .454 Casull and .500 Magnum. You do get the extra + of P++ without having to use hollow points.

It's basically a very good thing that ETC and ETK are around otherwise there'd be a problem with the improved body armor.

HT v. UT issues show up elsewhere, more or less at random.

The TL8 anti-tank missiles from HT are better.

You need to go to HT to get hearing protection that isn't built into a helmet.

There's probably more things too that I don't recall off-hand. Next time around HT needs to preceed UT.