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Old 06-05-2009, 03:01 PM   #31
LazarusDarkeyes
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Default Re: Attribute Limits

OK, how about a different angle. I suspect most here would not allow a human character in a 'realistic' fantasy game to buy ST 40 [300].

Assuming that is true, how high would you let it go. Why is YOUR limit where it is? What about other attributes? I think a few peopel said they try to discourage players from going above 15 or 16 in DX and such, but why? If the player has the points and wants to make a human with ST 40, why stop them? Are there any low-end limits as well? Would you allow a human with ST 1? DX 1? IQ 1? HT 1? If you have a lower-limit, why is it where it is?
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:16 PM   #32
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

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Originally Posted by LazarusDarkeyes View Post
Why is YOUR limit where it is? What about other attributes?
My limits are enforced by the point total I allow, plus the certain knowledge on the part of my players that they will be facing challenges that test them in multiple ways. While Strong Guy might be able to get away with spending (say) 100 points on ST, while knocking IQ down a bit, he knows better than to think he'll never have to worry about IQ just because he's got a smart buddy around. Same for every attribute.

On the low end, I've never seen a player take lower than a 7. The low end seems to be self-policing, in my experience. Were a player to approach me with a design that included an attribute lower than this, I'd discuss it with them, to see what they're trying to accomplish (e.g. if you want a sickly character, let's see how we can model it; perhaps a low-but-gameable HT plus a Dependency on a medicine, etc). If the horrid attribute is really the way to go, fine, as long as the player understands that bit I mentioned earlier about facing challenges.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:36 PM   #33
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

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Originally Posted by LazarusDarkeyes View Post
Assuming that is true, how high would you let it go. Why is YOUR limit where it is?
I'm unlikely to run a realistic game. If I did, however, I'd probably disallow anything below 7 or even 8 (any less is essentially disabling) or over 20 (a plausible unenhanced human maximum, but mostly just statistically convenient).
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:54 PM   #34
Mehmet
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarusDarkeyes View Post
OK, how about a different angle. I suspect most here would not allow a human character in a 'realistic' fantasy game to buy ST 40 [300].

Assuming that is true, how high would you let it go. Why is YOUR limit where it is? What about other attributes? I think a few peopel said they try to discourage players from going above 15 or 16 in DX and such, but why? If the player has the points and wants to make a human with ST 40, why stop them? Are there any low-end limits as well? Would you allow a human with ST 1? DX 1? IQ 1? HT 1? If you have a lower-limit, why is it where it is?
If it is, say, a 400 CP game, why not? The ST 40 PC would be the most boringestest character evet with that budget, in my opinion, but I'd still allow it if no one objects :) The game is 400 CP after all.

However, if you're saying that "in my quasi-reslistic fantasy games there should be a human limit," well, yes, in some of my games ther are limits to attributes and such too but it is inherent to the setting, not the system.

Cheerio!
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:01 PM   #35
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

I can't remember where the table is kept but I believe IQ 15 is genius level. More than that and, similarly for the other attributes, is no longer realistic and into action hero and super hero capabiities. DX or IQ 15 makes most defaults, which are for averages skills, 10. This is approaching useful but unrealistic levels of omniproficiency. Less than 8 is into disability territory and characters with these wouldn't be in a dangerous profession.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:15 PM   #36
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

Kromm once said 20 IQ points was about a point of GURPS IQ.

This issue has been discussed to death before. What I personally recommend is:

* Make templates for character creation, so players can see about what their stats should be in your game.

* Keep all but the most exceptional of NPCs in the normal attribute range, as you define it.

* Reserve the right to veto designs.

PCs are supposed to be exceptional. You may want them to be somewhere in the bounds of realism -- I usually do as well -- but don't go overboard. It's the NPC who should be subject to the mean and its regression. It emphasizes just how badass the PCs are.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:26 PM   #37
cmdicely
 
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarusDarkeyes View Post
OK, how about a different angle. I suspect most here would not allow a human character in a 'realistic' fantasy game to buy ST 40 [300].

Assuming that is true, how high would you let it go.
My basic guideline, if I am enforcing a limit, is 20 for humans, or twice racial average more generally. For all attributes. No lower limit (and the upper limit isn't hard, but requires an additional minor advantage, similar to special exercises, to exceed.)
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:53 PM   #38
Amra
 
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarusDarkeyes View Post
OK, how about a different angle. I suspect most here would not allow a human character in a 'realistic' fantasy game to buy ST 40 [300].

Assuming that is true, how high would you let it go. Why is YOUR limit where it is? What about other attributes? I think a few peopel said they try to discourage players from going above 15 or 16 in DX and such, but why? If the player has the points and wants to make a human with ST 40, why stop them? Are there any low-end limits as well? Would you allow a human with ST 1? DX 1? IQ 1? HT 1? If you have a lower-limit, why is it where it is?
For a realistic game, I'd set guidelines like: "Attributes should mostly be between 10-14. One Attribute can be 15+, but no higher than 18. One or two attributes can be as low as 8 with GM approval."

I wouldn't game with min/max players, or anyone who's going to make me jump through math hoops for house rules, not worth my time.

I set the parameters for the setting with what I'm comfortable with, its never been an issue for any games I've run. (except: I did have a "friend of a friend" as a player once in a D&D campaign who would rail against my 10th level PC limit from time to time. We dealt with it, the campaign was concluded with everyone having fun, with a 10th level cap).

I do like the way Unisystem divides up the points for Attributes, skills and para-natural abilities depending on character concept and power levels. I'd like to do something like that for GURPS, but I haven't yet.
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:24 AM   #39
The Benj
 
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

I tend to go with: No more than a total of 100 points in Attributes (lowered Attributes do not supplement this), no Attributes above 15.

I also, for my current campaign, said:
150 points, then a bonus 150 that can only be spent on social Advantages, Skills and superpowers (it's a low-powered Supers game). This has done a good job of meaning that - while we have some people who are stronger in their powers and some who are more socially elevated (did I mention they're playing 21st century Russian nobles in a world where the Communist revolution was didn't work?) - there aren't any "super-normals", which I like. They're all fairly normal people (stupidly rich normal people) who've got superpowers.
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:25 AM   #40
LynGrey
 
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Default Re: Attribute Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehmet View Post
This approach would be unfair to normals. If, say, there is a racial template with +10 ST, they pay 100 CP for that in the package but they gain a lot more than a human; ability to raise their ST without price inflation for another 3 levels :)

The thing is, "hardness to increase" is something you as the GM should control but not by making it more expensive pointwise.

YMMV of course.

Cheers!

Well that race with +10 ST is part of the template. And that race would have a limit of 14-26 ST normally (as per the standard rules of GURPS, i just take it a step further allowing a character to have lets say... 30 ST if he buys the accompaning Unusal Background to suggest it.

I do not see how i see how i'm hurting a "norm" because a norm wouldn't have ST 15 normally :-)
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